Ride Report Palm Canyon Epic no more?

A buddy of mine rode the PCE last weekend and alerted me that there were a couple brand new "NO MOUNTAIN BIKE" signs on some of the trails used to link up Mountain Bike Bill's Palm Canyon Epic.

So on Saturday a few of us headed out there and sure enough we ran into the first sign which reads "No mountain bikes beyond this point". The sign was erected on Palm Canyon Trail right at the Indian Potrero juncture thus prohibiting you from continuing on to the Sand Wash on either of the two trails :-k.

However, according to this document on the BLM website, both of those trails are legal for bikes and always have been (page 3)

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/media...dat/Trails_Plan_Summary_Fully_Implemented.pdf

So me and and buddy's were a bit puzzled but we continued down Indian Potrero where we ran into a large group of hikers. All were cordial but one of them began yelling at us that we were trespassing on a "hiking only" trail and threatened us that we were going to be getting cited by the rangers if we didn't turn around. She was very agitated to say the least.

My group stopped, yielded the trail, and I calmly explained what I believed to be the status of the trail but she was still pissed and said "Didn't you see the sign?" and insisted we turn around. I finally explained to her that for safety's sake, there was no way we could ride back up to Hwy 74 due to our water situation so she finally relented and "let us" pass.

We continued towards the wash but couldn't get the episode out of my head. A different group of riders came up behind us and apparently they also got an earful from the same hiker. We continued on the sand wash and apparently the other "no mountain bikes" sign is at the Vandenventer cut-off that some people use to skip the Sand Wash and which leads to the bottom of HBV and then on to Dunn Rd. However, this section of trail should also be open to bikes (also page 3)




So basically I'm a bit at a loss as to who put the signs up (hikers? equestrians? tribal authorities? ) The signs don't appear to be BLM signs, its similar in appearance to the one you find at the Sand Wash detour which was erected by tribal authorities so that you don't ride into the Oasis.

If anyone out there has any info regarding this I'd appreciate it. In the meantime, I'd urge to print out the BLM trail plan and have it with you when you ride into the canyon, just in case you need to talk yourself out of a ticket or have an encounter with an agitated hiker.

 

This is silly. Anyone can make a sign. Probably some sierra club hiker upstarts decided to make their own official looking signs and put them up. Just rip the signs down. They are an eyesore anyways. Do you have pics of the signs? Were they made with cardboard and magic markers or were they engraved with the seal of the federal government? The state doesn't have jurisdiction over that BLM land so it would take a decision at the federal level to close those trails to mountain bikes. Some rich local senior citizen hiking group put those signs up. I guarandamntee it.

 

Hopefully my buddy doesn't mind me sharing this pic of him (posted on mtbr) This is the sign off the dry wash road on Vandeventer which eventually leads to the botton of HBV:

Sure doesn't look like its cardboard, but compare to the sign in the foreground which is the typical BLM sign in the area.

 

Those signs look legit on PC. I think the Indians or BLM are claiming their land for foot traffic only. I heard something about this by a hiker a few months ago when I was riding out there. I just blew it off at the time... thinking no way this is going to happen. This is no bueno for PC and maybe some of the other riding/connecting trails nearby.

 

Yeah they look similar. Probably made by the same org or individual. Doesn't look like an official BLM sign. Here's a guidebook and examples of official signs.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...FR0Txkp16D7Vs0Zw-Gt50kw&bvm=bv.62788935,d.cGU

I'd rip them both down just to teach them a lesson. Maybe carry some firewater with you on rides in case you come across any Indians. I'm just kidding. Weird though the blm website says the trails are open to biking but signs went up before the website changed. Could be official though. Calling would be best way to find out I reckon.

 

Now now.. That's not the answer..

Make signs that say "This trail is closed to hikers" and replace the current ones. \\/

 

I forgot to add, the hiker who chewed us out was going on and on about how we "destroy" the hiking trails (mind you the Indian Potrero trail we were on is built on solid granite and/or DG, not even a herd of horses could damage that trail)

There is definitely and "anti-mountain" agenda at play in Palm Springs.....

 

FYI..I have a call into the BLM Visitors center in Palm Desert. They haven't heard this trail is close to bikers. They are checking into it for me, and calling me back.. Stay Tuned.

 

Thanks...keep us updated. I also thought maybe the closure was related to the land exchange the BLM was working on with the tribe, but I just found another document and also indicates Indian Potrero (in addition to Palm Canyon) would also stay open if the exchange took place (I don't know if it has)

(The picture of the sign I posted is at the beginning of the "East Fork Loop" which is currently on tribal land. The other sign (sorry no pictures) is at the Indian Potrero/Palm Canyon juncture)



http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/media...43.File.dat/10-05 BLM-ACBCI Land Exchange.pdf

 

the way I answer statements such as this are:
Your response is not supported by evidence. The empirical evidence shows that cyclists cause about as much damage as hikers, and less than horses.
Also, mountain bikers give more hours to trail maintenance than any other user group.

 

My group 2weeks ago ran into a group of hikers & 2 horse back armed tribal rangers right at the start of the sand wash. I wasn't the lead rider, but the lead rider said they asked where we were heading & he pointed down the sand wash. The Indian rangers said that's right with attitude occurring to the lead rider. I don't recall at that time any signage.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

Most likely to make sure that you were not planning on taking the other trail towards the Indian Trading Post....which is closed to bikes.

 

Land ownership up there is a patchwork of BLM and Agua Caliente Indian property. It is well known the tribe doesn't like bikes, so it could well be them who put up these signs. While they own land parts of these trails are on I'm not sure they have authority to close them unilaterally. That is a long way for hikers to haul in sign post and tools, no matter how much they hate bikes. Not that it would be the first time this has been done.

The BLM land swap would have seen some of the squares change ownership and was worrisome because it would put more trails onto Indian land rather than BLM land. A provision in the land swap agreement states that access would not change for the most part, but the Indians could eventually opt out of that with a year's notice and do whatever they wanted. All that said, the land swap brought up strong objections from everyone except the tribe (and rightly so, it is a crap deal) so the BLM is apparently reviewing it again.

It is always frustrating to see a few vocal haters try to shut down access. It is not like many hikers even make it to Potrero.

 

The square where I saw the No Bikes sign on Indian Potrero is definitely on BLM land according to the tribe's own planning document (squares 25 and 36) :clap:

However, the parcels are being considered in the land exchange with the BLM.


http://www.aguacaliente.org/downloads/ICMP.pdf


I realize this whole continent belonged to the tribes at one point.....but instead of trying to keep mountain bikers out the tribe should get hip and invite mountain bikers to the Trading Post, perhaps charge a small fee, and offer cold beer, power bars, and over-priced bike repair services and spare parts. There were about 20-30 of us out there on Saturday they would have made a killing.

 

Sierra Club.
I've had some run-ins with them as well on totally legit trails. There are a handful of Sierra Club members that think they should have exclusive access to the trails and take every chance to harass mountain bikers. They seem to especially love grandstanding in front of a SC group hike audience. My experience was exactly like yours... we were exceedingly polite and courteous... but they insisted the trail was closed to bikes, were overly angered, tried to block our path, etc.
Just push thru and be on your way.

Any argument over which user group causes the most trail damage is a joke. The trail itself is a scar across the landscape. The resulting drainage issues, erosion, slides, etc are the bulk of most trail issues and they are primarily caused or mitigated by the quality of the trail planning and construction. If you want to see a trail quickly fall into disrepair, take away ALL traffic.

 

Based on the following at least some of section 25 belongs to the tribe:
“Since the adoption of the original
Master Plan, the Tribe has acquired 4,946
acres of land in Sections 2, 6, 7, 11, 13, 15, 17,
23, and 25 of Township 5 South, Range 4 East
(T5S, R4E) and Sections 7, 19, and 20 of
Township 5 South, Range 5 East (T5S, R5E) (see
Figure 5). ”

Figure 5 shows that the North west corner of the parcel is tribal and the section just south of that belongs to the “Desert Riders Trail Fund”.

 

Thanks for the fyi.....I'm wondering if they can block off the entire trail at the southern trailhead because they now own a little section on the northern end?

The "Desert Riders" are the folks who built Art Smith, Hahn, Clara Burgess, Garstin, etc.

 

It seems weird if this is an official sign. I've never seen a sign that explicitly prohibits mountain bikes. They usually say "no motorized vehicles" or "no bicycles" or "hiking only." Something more generic (e.g., are cyclocross bikes allowed?). Makes me think it's a fake.

 

And offer Jo Pond shuttles!!!!!!
and mule transport across the wash!!!!
I will pay big bucks for Jo Pond shuttles. In fact I will pay for Palm Canyon shuttles, the tribe is lame for not doing it. What do the hikers have to offer the tribe. Jo Pond is the safer route during the summer.

 

At that point I'd start taking pictures, asking for names and numbers, and pointing out that the courts and not violence are the way to solve disputes. I'd then file an assault report with the local sheriff after the ride. There is no excuse for violence on the trails.