Intersting News Regarding the Global Warming Debate

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by dgaspar, Nov 21, 2009.

  1. dgaspar

    dgaspar I like to burn things

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    This is a story that broke Friday and is becoming a pretty big story (unless you read the LA Times). The article below is from the Wall Street Journal and is the most neutral article I could find from a well respected source.

    Hacked Emails Show Climate Science Ridden with Rancor

    The picture that emerges of prominent climate-change scientists from the more than 3,000 documents and emails accessed by hackers and put on the Internet this week is one of professional backbiting and questionable scientific practices. It could undermine the idea that the science of man-made global warming is entirely settled just weeks before a crucial climate-change summit.

    Researchers at the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, England, were victims of a cyberattack by hackers sometime Thursday. A collection of emails dating back to the mid-1990s as well as scientific documents were splashed across the Internet. University officials confirmed the hacker attack, but couldn't immediately confirm the authenticity of all the documents posted on the Internet.

    The publicly posted material includes years of correspondence among leading climate researchers, most of whom participate in the preparation of climate-change reports for the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the authoritative summaries of global climate science that influence policy makers around the world.

    The release of the documents comes just weeks before a big climate-change summit in Copenhagen, Denmark, meant to lay the groundwork for a new global treaty to curb greenhouse-gas emissions and fight climate change. Momentum for an agreement has been undermined by the economic slump, which has put environmental issues on the back burner in most countries, and by a 10-year cooling trend in global temperatures that runs contrary to many of the dire predictions in climate models such as the IPCC's.

    A partial review of the emails shows that in many cases, climate scientists revealed that their own research wasn't always conclusive. In others, they discussed ways to paper over differences among themselves in order to present a "unified" view on climate change. On at least one occasion, climate scientists were asked to "beef up" conclusions about climate change and extreme weather events because environmental officials in one country were planning a "big public splash."

    The release of the documents has given ammunition to many skeptics of man-made global warming, who for years have argued that the scientific "consensus" was less robust than the official IPCC summaries indicated and that climate researchers systematically ostracized other scientists who presented findings that differed from orthodox views.

    Since the hacking, many Web sites catering to climate skeptics have pored over the material and concluded that it shows a concerted effort to distort climate science. Other Web sites catering to climate scientists have dismissed those claims.

    The tension between those two camps is apparent in the emails. More recent messages showed climate scientists were increasingly concerned about blog postings and articles on leading skeptical Web sites. Much of the internal discussion over scientific papers centered on how to pre-empt attacks from prominent skeptics, for example.

    Fellow scientists who disagreed with orthodox views on climate change were variously referred to as "prats" and "utter prats." In other exchanges, one climate researcher said he was "very tempted" to "beat the crap out of" a prominent, skeptical U.S. climate scientist.

    In several of the emails, climate researchers discussed how to arrange for favorable reviewers for papers they planned to publish in scientific journals. At the same time, climate researchers at times appeared to pressure scientific journals not to publish research by other scientists whose findings they disagreed with.

    One email from 1999, titled "CENSORED!!!!!" showed one U.S.-based scientist uncomfortable with such tactics. "As for thinking that it is 'Better that nothing appear, than something unacceptable to us' … as though we are the gatekeepers of all that is acceptable in the world of paleoclimatology seems amazingly arrogant. Science moves forward whether we agree with individual articles or not," the email said.

    More recent exchanges centered on requests by independent climate researchers for access to data used by British scientists for some of their papers. The hacked folder is labeled "FOIA," a reference to the Freedom of Information Act requests made by other scientists for access to raw data used to reach conclusions about global temperatures.

    Many of the email exchanges discussed ways to decline such requests for information, on the grounds that the data was confidential or was intellectual property. In other email exchanges related to the FOIA requests, some U.K. researchers asked foreign scientists to delete all emails related to their work for the upcoming IPCC summary. In others, they discussed boycotting scientific journals that require them to make their data public.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125883405294859215.html
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2009
  2. dirtvert

    dirtvert Whine on!

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    uh, right.

    we should believe some "facts" obtained by "hackers" instead of the worldwide consensus put forth by 100's of scientific organizations.
     
  3. dgaspar

    dgaspar I like to burn things

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    The head of the Climatic Research Unit is admitting that the leak is real. He is not claiming that the emails are fabricated and instead is attempting to explain them away.
     
  4. dirtvert

    dirtvert Whine on!

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    no scientific organization has come out opposing the fact of global warming (caused by humans).

    you've have better luck finding obama's nigerian birth certificate. :lol:

    btw- the l.a. times if one of the highest-rated papers. i think they'd cover it if it was legit...
     
  5. mpmffitz

    mpmffitz Farm Freerider

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    What does Al and Tipper say about this???
     
  6. dirtvert

    dirtvert Whine on!

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    from the l.a. times online:

    DAVID STRINGER
    Associated Press Writer
    November 21, 2009 | 11:34 a.m.


    LONDON (AP) — Computer hackers have broken into a server at a well-respected climate change research center in Britain and posted hundreds of private e-mails and documents online — stoking debate over whether some scientists have overstated the case for man-made climate change.

    The University of East Anglia, in eastern England, said in a statement Saturday that the hackers had entered the server and stolen data at its Climatic Research Unit, a leading global research center on climate change. The university said police are investigating the theft of the information, but could not confirm if all the materials posted online are genuine.

    i think i'll wait for the facts to come in to see if global warming is an international conspiracy engineered by those evil scientists.
     
  7. dgaspar

    dgaspar I like to burn things

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    Plenty of scientists either dispute the existence of man-made global warming or believe that the evidence is at best inconclusive. I will admit that for me, the jury is still somewhat out. Recent evidence shows that we may in fact be in a period of cooling which may continue for some period. Is this just a dip in an overall trend of warming or is it a sign of a more durable cooling trend? I don't really know but I think that it and the recently discovered emails at least shows that the debate is not over.

    As for Obama's birth certificate, weren't we looking for an Indonesian birth certificate?;)

    The LA Times is more reputable than the Wall Street Journal? Heck, even MSNBC is covering this story.
     
  8. mpmffitz

    mpmffitz Farm Freerider

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    You can blame me for global warming I drive 150 miles a day five days a week, plus I rev my motor in traffic.
     
  9. dgaspar

    dgaspar I like to burn things

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    Interesting, I just searched the LA Times website for "Anglia" (clearly the most unique word in the article). The search returned 4 articles, none of which were the article you posted. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. I also heard on KFI that no articles from the LA Times were found online either. I don't know, it really doesn't matter.
     
  10. dirtvert

    dirtvert Whine on!

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    you can find plenty of individual scientists that believe anything--including creationist "scientists" that believe that people and dinosaurs coexisted. no scientific organization on the planet offers a dissenting view about global warming.

    and i didn't say the journal was less reputable than the l.a. times, although their strength is business reporting, and they're more conservative (owned by robert murdoch) than the l.a. times is liberal. i was just defending the times since you implied they wouldn't cover the story, which they did...

    /www.latimes.com/news/science/
     
  11. uzziboy

    uzziboy hi Ron...it's Ron

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    What I dont get is that all naysayers would rather not err on the side of caution. Why is that? Wouldnt you as a human rather be prepared than just poo poo it away?

    I still think that if we continue with this trend the world will cease to exsist. It could be 10 years or a thousand you never know.... but seriously why not try to clean things up now? Is it because people are lazy and dont even want to try? Do you think that businesses are going to go under? Is ti because most scientist are liberal and the right hates this and the academic community as a whole? And ahhh yes more god damn taxes.... hit the nail on the head.

    I really want to understand your rational.. but it gets tiring listening to the bullshit the right produces without any scientific evedence to refute it otherwise.
     
  12. dgaspar

    dgaspar I like to burn things

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    Since you quoted me, I'm going to assume that you actually read my post, especially the part where I said that I was undecided as to man-made global warming. Assuming that, I'm not sure what you mean when you refer to my "rational" (sic) or "bullshit."
     
  13. Uplander

    Uplander Bring it!

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    I think it is a buch of Liberal bull crap..... GW it's their new religion and in the mean time the high priest (Al Gore) of that new religion has become the first GREEN BILLIONER that's billioner with a "B". :mad:
     
  14. mxvet

    mxvet New Member

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    just go ahead and gloss over the ten year cooling trend...it's just a "trend" when its cooling, but a "major dilemma" when its heating...

    and the LA times sucks! I cant wait for them to finally go out of business.

    now i am going to do donuts in my V-8 Tundra with the AC on full blast...so shove those carbon credits where the sun don't shine (because it's cooling).

    where's the middle finger emoticon?
     
  15. dirtvert

    dirtvert Whine on!

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    "George W. Bush on Thursday unveiled a striking about-face on global warming, calling on the world’s leading economies to join the US in agreeing to a global target to reduce carbon dioxide emissions before the end of his term in office.


    Mr Bush said: “Science has deepened our understanding of climate change and opened new possibilities for confronting it"--Old News/ May 31, 2007

    damn, so george bush was a liberal? no wonder he f'ed things up so much...

    btw- al gore is merely a "millioner". :lol:
     
  16. Uplander

    Uplander Bring it!

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    What does Bush have to do with this coversation, he is not profiting from the spread of GW fear. It's okay time will tell that it's just a bunch of bull crap, but I just don't want to be taxed to death in the mean time.
     
  17. dirtvert

    dirtvert Whine on!

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    ^^^ because even george bush admitted--after 6 years in office--that global warming was a problem. get it? what do taxes have to do with it?

    (nevermind, please don't answer. enjoy your beer).

    :cheers:
     
  18. Abui

    Abui Active Member

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    Rated by who as what?

    Name your source.
     
  19. dirtvert

    dirtvert Whine on!

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    jebus. can't you guys look up your own shit? and try to stay on topic. :lol:

    do a search for a national ranking of papers (i'm pretty sure it was done by 100 editors). l've posted it here before. the times was in the top 8, i think.

    good night and good luck...
     
  20. Dino Brown

    Dino Brown Sir Smack-Alot

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    1. I consider myself environmentally conscious!

    2. I do believe humans have played a role in "climate change/global warming"

    3. Where Gore and his "people" lost me is with their a) gloom-based approach to this problem b) creative use of facts c) arm twisting! After watching his documentary, I decided to do a bit of research- quickly realized there were (2) sides to this story! :(

    4. Al Gore's approach seems to be based around the words tax-ban-outlaw-restrict...

    5. Gore gives much focus to carbon dioxide based gases...
    He largely ignores the problem of METHANE!
    For those who don't know: METHANE is the #1 gas associated with global warming! One of the leading causes.... animals! The same animals that are grown for our consumption! While I am not a vegetarian, if we each ate 2 fewer hamburgers per week- I'm pretty sure we can do more for Mr. Gore's cause than... than... Never mind! :(

    I'll do my part: Eat less red meat... Turn-off lights when not needed... Ease off on the air conditioner/heater... Rather than driving my car to the market (1/4 mile away), I might just walk... Solar power... Restrict the number of plastic bottles I throw into the recycling bin per week..


    I'm rambling... #-o
    Like I said, Mr. Gore lost me- That's too bad!

    *Don't even get me started about the auto and oil industries!!! #-o
     

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