Attention Westsiders - RE: Sullivan Canyon (Threads Merged)

I was there as well... work will commence tomorrow in all likelihood, it all sounds fairly reasonable, unless you're on the extreme end of things, it'll be a wide fire road all the way up, it'll be closed, it'll suck for awhile once it re-opens, but I'm quite sure a trail will redevelop down there with time.

Facts:
4.5 mile dirt road, 12' wide
All water will continue to flow in the same manner it currently does
31 Trees will be removed, NO Oaks, some sycamores.
None of the 200 "Numbered" trees will be removed (whatever that means)
There are thousands of trees in the canyon
Every work crew will have a Supervisor, a Biologist, and a Water truck (for fire)

There will be 2 phases:
1. Make the road (Completed Oct 09)
2. Cover and protect the pipes (Completed Mid-Dec 09) -

The canyon will be closed until sometime in Oct, likely re-open, then close again while they do phase 2. There will be guards at the top and bottom during closures.


My impression is that they didn't want to get involved in a long, drawn out, public process on land they have owned for ~50 years and lines they are required to maintain.

There was spin by the Gas co, there were inane arguments by wannabe activists, there were threats of injunctions and various local associations banding together, but I don't think any of it'll affect things much. Bottom line, the Gas company could have handled the public relations much better, and more proactively involved and disclosed things to the public, been more transparent, gone the extra mile, etc... but the project (protecting the pipeline) needs to be done, and will always need to, since it's in the bottom of a canyon and big storms can and will trash the whole place from time to time.

My biggest issue relative to the whole project is that no independent review of the process that took place, meaning all environmental studies were done by the Gas co's people, all alternatives were vetted by Gas co people, etc.

One of the comments I was most put off by was the woman from the Sierra Club that talked about "erosion happening, EVEN BEFORE the bikers came".

 

Yea I heard a couple of these comments. We are not loved out there.

here's my synopsis: (pasted from mtbr)

I just got back from the meeting. Here's the summary, as I understand it:

1) the gas company owns the canyon and has so for 50 years
2) the gas company has 2 pipelines that run through the Canyon that need occasional repairs
3) in 2006 severe damage was done and pipeline exposed, leaving pipeline vulnerable to further damage including possible perforation during similar type season (think big boulder slamming into pipe)
4) the gas company is fine with us playing on their property but they have to fix it
5) in order to fix it they have to secure a road
6) the road will not be paved, it will be a dirt road
7) it will by necessity stretch 12 feet because that is how big it needs to be to get this special hauler in that carries these big concrete mats (think like tile work on a lattice but 8 feet by 20 feet) that will go on the exposed pipe sections
8) the road work will start tommorow, and will commence from top and bottom of canyon at same time
9) the road work will be done by mid october
10) the laying down of these special concrete mats(revetment mats) is to cover exposed pipeline only so it will just be on those explosed portions (about 2 dozen i think)
11) to put a road they need to cut down 31 trees
12) to do this work the canyon will be CLOSED WITH GUARDS AT TOP AND BOTTOM UNTIL MiD DECEMBER (ie no poaching even at night)
13) They have all these environmental consultants, biologists, hydrology drainage expert people whose prime directive is to MINIMIZE environmental impact. The water will flow in the same channels as it does now
14) Animals will be carefully moved and not killed
15) Fire avoidance is critical and trucks will be at site with pumping capability

Although there is no getting around the need for this road, the goal of the road is nto to be a paved or graded fireroad. The goal once the pipeline is covered is to have a road, which may be rough or rocky, but that can allow a 4wd vehicle to access parts of the pipeline that need to be serviced.

The 5 year thingy is for the permit. The majority of the work should be done before mid december.

The reason for the current urgency and springing of notice is two-fold: the permits for all this (of which there are many) were just finally obtained 2 weeks ago. Also, an El Nino year is predicted, possibly similar to 2006, and that pipe needs to be protected.

The larger and more sustainable project required special permits. The Gas Co woudl have preferred to work in 06 or 07 but the planning, committed, environmental impact teams, fire dept meetings,etc etc took years to line up.

So there you have my version.
It is happening for sure, unless some attorney halts it at 11th hour.
The pipe needs to be fixed.
They are sensitive to the use of the canyon by all of us and their directive is to minimize their footprint on the area, so that the feel of Sullivan is preserved. Obviously it will need a season or two to regrow. They are to plant 310 saplings too and remove underbrush (fire danger) and remove non-native plants.

I'm sure some of you were there, I could tell there were a few cyclists.

For perspective, a bad storm year can take out more than 30 trees. They are leaving the other thousands and thousands of trees. An arborist will be on hand to aid in how to protect and prun the trees if they need to do that en route to constructing the road.

 

isn't there somebody you could sleep with to delay this?

 

Burner & Impy, thanks so much for the in-depth information!
Fo Shizzle, thanks for the laugh! I needed it!

 

I agree. This is the weakest link. At least they investigated it with appropriate specialties. Time will tell.

The silver lining is, if they muck it up and it erodes all badly we will have some fun lines this spring after el nino.

 

Unless they decide it's time to regrade again. Remember that their permits are good for 5 years....

 

I haven't seen any markings or numbers on the tree with the big geo-cache swing (look under the swing seat next time).
That's good...

 

When a project requires environmental or other impact studies (CEQA, EPA, California Coastal Commission, etc.), those studies are usually performed by independent consultants hired by the entity constructing the project. I have been involved in projects owned by The Gas Co. and in all of those projects, the environmental studies were performed by indpendent consultants (yes, the studies were paid for by The Gas Co.). Even if these particular studies/alternatives were developed by Gas Co. employees, I don't see a problem with that. Why? Because there is in fact independent review of the conclusions reached by the studies. That review is performed by the state/county/local agencies who are responsible for reviewing the studies and if the studies pass muster, issuing the permits for construction. The Gas Co. did receive permits for the work and without additional information, I must conclude that the government is satisfied with the studies performed by The Gas Co.

If you are suggesting that studies be performed by consultants not paid for by The Gas Co. (this would be unusual), who is going to pay for it? These types of studies are not cheap and I think it would be a waste of tax dollars to have a redundant study performed by the government.

 

The metal markers are much easier to see at night when they reflect your lights. During the day you wouldn't really notice them riding by.

 

Yes, I understand how it works... but had you heard the biologist speak who managed the studies, he's worked on all Gas Co projects for awhile, and clearly knows who pays his tab. At times it was difficult to understand who he was talking about, because he was referring to the Gas Co, but saying "WE".

At the meeting, it sounded like there were plenty of associations willing to chip in on an independent review. There is no shortage of money in that part of town.

Either way, I'm not sweating it... the work needs to get done, and they are probably doing the best they can while still operating a for-profit business.

 

Sullivan Canyon is DEAD

All the talk actually came true. I rode down the trail today, and it's ruined-- for good. They bulldosed it so wide you could drive a dump truck up the old single track. SAD SAD.

 

That sucks

 

still prefer that to haveing the entire west side where I live explode in a gaseous fireball.

The canyon will grow back, it always does.

How did you get past the guard, or are they done with the road and have it open now? That would be cool, they are ahead of schedule.

 

R.I.P.



From a pre-Super Bowl ride my son Willie and I did on Feb 4, 2007 with the Backbone Racing Team.

- shud

 

I went and checked out the top of Sullivan today. The fire road is open and accessible, although there is a fair amount of traffic on it from security guards to supervisors to construction vehicles. Even Sullivan Fire Road has been graded. I could only see the first few turns down into the canyon, and it has been dozed to provide access for all sorts of construction rigs. I hung out for about 45 minutes, talking to one of the park rangers, one of the Gas Co. workers, and briefly with the project supervisor. And really I was not there to pry but just to check out the scene, and they were all approachable and chatty.

Ranger: I asked the ranger what would happen if I dropped into Sully via Squirrel Cage or the Westridge Crack, and he said if you do, turn around. There is security in the canyon, and they really don't want people in there nor do they want to worry about someone getting hurt due to all of the new construction & vehicles etc. He basically said show some respect and ride one of the nearby trails - I'll just have to do an even bigger loop.

Gas Co. worker: very talkative. He said that the exposed pipes you now see were originally under 7 feet of soil. And if they blow it's not like the Studio City water main where people just get wet, but there's a good chance that people die. A rupture in the gas main is apparently louder than a jet engine. They have brought in 100 tons of earth, and are bringing in something like another 150 tons. They have lots of river rock with which they are going to use to divert running water/flash floods away from the pipe line. Anyway, he had plenty of stories about different gas line leaks & whatnot, but he stressed that safety was their primary concern. He was the one who photographed the exposed pipe two years ago to alert his superiors and thus started the chain reaction of pulling permits to execute this project.

Supervisor: he drove up Sullivan Fire Road and stopped beside me as I was straddling my bike, rolled down his window, and said "Good news. We are ahead of schedule so you should be riding this again before expected, perhaps by October. I know there are other trails around here, but I also know that this is a particularly good one. I'll even try to put in some jumps for you guys." Yes, he's joking around, but hey who knows?

Anyway, they are doing what needs to be be done, and everyone I talked to seems to understand that Sullivan Canyon is a pretty special place for a lot of people, not just cyclists. Out of respect, stay out of the canyon and let them finish up.


This sign is posted at the top gate, on Dirt Mulholland:



Sullivan Fire Road & Sullivan Canyon fork. About 5 minutes after taking this pic a dumptruck came up the canyon - that's how wide the "singletrack" is now.

 

is it officially back open now???

 

I was out there a few days ago and all of the dozers & diggers were pretty busy. I wonder how the canyon is handling the rain right now, cuz up here it is pis*ing! A really heavy cell just moved through, we lost power for about 30 seconds, and the gutters are overflowing. Prayers go out to anyone near the burn areas.

 

We rode there Sunday up Sully ridge and could see how wide the canyon is! Bummer! Love the porta John at the top though!

 

You should have asked for a Pump Track

 

anyone ride this since it is re-opened? I am planning on heading up there soon, if so, I will do a RR.

curious but afraid...