29er MB keep up with road bike?

Discussion in 'The Roadie Hangout' started by taprackbang, Jun 15, 2014.

  1. taprackbang

    taprackbang Member

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    I mean no offense by this but if you equip a 29er with street/road type tires, would there be a difference then in keeping up with road bikes? Assuming both bikes have similar gearing/speeds. If not, wouldn't it make sense to get the MB and just have an extra set of street/road wheels to swap out so you can ride it in both areas..?
     
  2. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej Well-Known Member

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    You could keep up for a little bit.....however, the road bike is gonna had higher gearing so they would have a higher top end. In addition, most road bikes will have a weight advantage as well as an aerodynamic advantage.
     
  3. CarbonLegs

    CarbonLegs Search for ultimate ride.

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    Not sure i understand the question- Are you referring to a set of 29inch road wheels, for the sake of swapping out wheels and hitting the road with an advantage ?

    I was able to keep up with "some" roadies, but you are asking alot from your Legs (i didn't see the point).
     
  4. Rivet

    Rivet Active Member

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    Road bike will always be lighter and more aero. The difference is significant if you are competing.
     
  5. barbanegra

    barbanegra New Member

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    A couple more things to consider: how fast are the road riders you're trying to keep up? and the terrain (long mountain climbs or flat?)
    For the cost of another wheelset + tires; I rather buy a cheap used road bike...
     
  6. kcm

    kcm New Member

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    no way! All things being equal, even if you change to road tires, a road bike will blow the 29er away. don't bother .. i used to commute to work on mtbk. after a while, I bought a used road bike. made a huge difference...
     
  7. Varaxis

    Varaxis Trail Ninja

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    Geo is a big difference, for the same reason a lightweight long travel bike can't really hang with XC bikes, even if your suspension can be made really hard and you change tires. MTB components are likely to "steal more watts" due to extra seal drag, larger diameter bearings, packed with more bearings and more durable waterproof grease. You change the geo a bit with a tire change too, lowering the BB a good deal with tires that could be 3" smaller in overall fully-inflated diameter. There's little doubt it would be a handicap against you, vs a road bike.
     
  8. crispy

    crispy Wannabe

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    I actually did this for a while (road tires on my MTB).

    The only real difference is that the road bike is lighter and more aero and the more aero part is the biggest difference. You can make the MTB just about as light is you also want to swap out the fork to a rigid carbon one. I had a lot of fun doing it. I think the longest ride I did was around 60 miles. my average speeds were similar to my road bike, but probably up to 0.5 mph less. I also rode with some of my regular riding buddies and was able to keep up (and pull them around). I want to get some cross tires so that I can throw them on my MTB and do road rides with some dirt detours.

    The only problem you'll have is gearing, especially with everyone running 1x11 drivetrains now. Maybe throw and larger front ring on there, like a 36 or a 38. That'll give you a good range, still with some easy gears for long hill grinds.
     
  9. wheeler

    wheeler Member

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    No.....If you want a road bike get one. Total different geo.

    I have one that I use for training and is WAY faster than my 29'er mbikes
     
  10. MnMDan

    MnMDan Member

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    I hung with a group of roadies in a paceline on my Trek (32x10) and MTB tires doing Breathless Agony for about 15 miles...didn't take any pulls but didn't drop off the group...I'd say a 29er takes 20%-30% more energy with Ikon's than a road bike, all things being equal. Throw some fatboys on there and you're looking at 15% to 20%.

    Although I like passing roadies doing 15 mph on Santiago Canyon when I'm on my way to/from a ride in the Santa Ana's....ticks them off when they think its a rock crawler tailgating them.
     
  11. socal_eric

    socal_eric New Member

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    I have quite a bit of experience with using a MTB on the road since they're the only bikes I own and I subsequently do quite a bit of road and mixed surface riding. Having spent quite a bit of time thinking about it while on the saddle and looking at performance data afterwards the biggest differences are efficiency, weight, and fit compared to a road bike.

    Efficiency. My newest Scott 29er doesn't have the best pedaling platform compared to other bikes I've sampled but it does have a great suspension lock-out that's stiffer than most of the common "lockout" modes and tuning on other shocks and forks. If you start pedaling at a high cadence (which you will on the road) or try to put tons of power down to the pedals and your suspension flexes, even slightly, you're giving up quite a bit of power.

    Weight/mass. You can get some pretty light carbon frame hard-tail 29ers but they're still going to be heavier than a decent road bike by the time you add suspension fork, heavier wheels, and general mass required in other components to take the abuse of trail riding. If you're starting with something full suspension and add other riding gear it adds up.

    Fit. A lightweight XC 29er with low bottom bracket might be able to be tweaked to get a little more efficient riding position for the road but there's a good chance you'll still give up quite a bit as far as aerodynamics. There's also the matter of comfort on longer rides. With a flat bar there aren't many options for hand positions and if you're trying to ride hunkered down and minimize width on your grip it's a good recipe for hand and arm fatigue.


    With that said I've done plenty of century and longer road rides and do okay for my expectations but what are yours? Do you just want to mix in some road riding for extra saddle time? Do you plan to ride solo or want to do group rides, and if so, what type of pace?

    The biggest factor for me personally is weight. On the flats and downhill I can hold a reasonable pace but my near clyde-and-a-half body weight combined with 35+ pounds of bike and gear don't make for the fastest times going up hills. I can compensate with bursts of power for short periods but get over a couple percent grades for any serious distance and I'm hurting. Although intended for road riders, here's a good article what you need to move up hills and the effect weight has. In a best case scenario ten to fifteen pounds might not seem like much compared to a road bike but it adds up. Then factor in other losses of efficiency from things like rolling mass of wheels, energy lost to suspension, etc.

    Gearing could be another issue depending on what you have and what you intend to ride. Having a granny gear may make a few road riders jealous on the steepest of climbs but you'll likely still find them passing you, even if the effort appears greater on their part (an analogy would be a light single-speed MTB passing you going uphill). For general speed over flat road gearing could be an issue depending on what you're running. I'm still on triple rings with a 42 front and 36-11 cassette out back and usually have to keep around an 80-90 rpm cadence for 16-18 mph and that's not always using the 11-tooth gear.

    If you can spin fast and have good endurance to keep it up, a 42 or 44 tooth front ring might get you by reasonably well but one area where you'll be at a significant disadvantage is fast downhill. The extra weight works with gravity but going down grades more than a few percent I spin out at around 32-35 mph and maybe mid to upper thirty range going full tilt. To put power down over a given distance you can either spin slower and put more power down each stroke or spin faster which requires less effort for each pedal stroke but requires more strokes to move the same distance.

    The problem on a mountain bike comes when you're already at a really high cadence it can tire you out very fast trying to put a lot of power down and keep a really high cadence. Factor in the worse aerodynamic drag that is increasing exponentially with speed due to poorer fit and it's a recipe for expending a lot of effort, all the time, even down hills. While the road bikes are coasting and conserving energy I'll be constantly hammering and spinning away just to keep the speed up, even downhill.

    One of the last things to look at it is what type of road riding you want to do, primarily meaning groups or solo. On most century rides that have between 4-6k feet elevation gain I can average around 16-17 mph for a solo effort. That might be in the ballpark of average/casual road bikers but it's not the same pacing. I've ridden numerous rides where I'll pass a road cyclist on the flats only to be passed by them on the inclines, to have me passing them again on the downhill (while I'm hammering away and they're coasting and recovering). Repeat ad nauseum.

    I could see this as being the biggest liability if you want to do group road rides on anything other than fairly smooth, flat ground. You can put the effort in and keep a reasonable average pace but if you can't hang off the group's back wheel for the aerodynamic advantages because you're always slowing and speeding up then the overall group speed will be really important. For a leisurely cruise it might not be a problem but if they're pushing a good pace and holding it on the hills it could be a real challenge.


    With all that said, if you're just doing it for fun and exercise there's a few things that will make it work better. Shave as much weight as possible off your setup and be picky about the gear you take with you (e.g. carry a bottle and cage instead of loaded CamelBak, etc.) Tweak your setup to fit the road better. That might mean putting the seat up a little higher than you'd normally be using for off-road riding and have ample reach in the cockpit to stretch out and get a little lower.

    Tires are important but if you still want to hit some dirt roads and hard-pack XC trails there are quite a few MTB tires that roll pretty well when aired up. For the last year I've been running a Schwalbe Rocket Ron front and Smart Sam rear (just swapped out for a Continental Race King rear) for mixed surface riding and been pretty happy. If I want to tackle dirt requiring more grip I'll swap on a set of Nobby Nics. If you're going to be doing mostly paved road riding a narrower, road oriented tire might work better if you don't mind swapping them out before the occasional trail use and the lighter rolling mass at the outer edge of the wheel would be nice.
     
  12. mrjonger

    mrjonger New Member

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    All things being equal, the road bike is faster. But that's all things being equal. I've seen many a full suspension mtb with knobbies pick off roadies (myself included).

    For my stop & go commute, I'm about 10% slower on my locked out full suspension 26er (adds 6 minutes to 1 hr 13.5 mile commute). Though this would probably be bigger if my commute didn't have a lot of stops.

    If you're looking ride with your roadie friends, you could just join them for a ride on your 29er see if you need a road bike. If you're just looking to mix things up or commute on your own, not sure it's worth it.
     
  13. duke777

    duke777 Active Member

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    This is like saying will a hummer keep up with a Porsche, yes if the porsche is driving slow.

    A 29er mtb will NOT be anywhere near as fast as a proper road bike given riders are at the same fitness level. A lot of times when MTBer see a roadie and want to race them on the road but that roadie might have already been on the road for 50 plus miles or on the way home from a club ride. Of course there are slow roadies just like there are slow MTBers.

    If the roadies you want to ride with is of less fitness level and mellow in their pace then yes you can keep up with pumped up skinny tires. If they decide to keep pace higher than your average leisure ride unless you are at expert level fitness it's pretty hard to keep 20+ mph for 30-40 miles or more even with contador style wheel sucking. So in general if the pace is 18mph or less you have a good chance keeping up but if the pace is constant 20-22 or even higher(not uncommon to have groups pace well over 25mph on pch) then it will be VERY hard.

    Or kinda like climb xc trails like black star with DH bikes, can you keep up with some of the people? Yes but will it be fun or keep up with the faster guys? maybe but is sure will be really hard.
     
  14. blindman_22

    blindman_22 HAB Crew President

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    varaxis change his sn?
     
  15. skflow

    skflow Member

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    taprackbang = afgenkuong jr.?
     
  16. socal_eric

    socal_eric New Member

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    :lol:


    There's not a lot of stuff in mountain biking that I'm good at and I can't often contribute much to threads, but this is one area I've spent a lot of time thinking about while spinning away for countless hours over the road and comparing data afterwards to see just how much I suck compared to road bikes and what it takes to barely (sometimes) keep up.

    I guess to summarize, by all means the right tool for the job, but if you've got it, ride it.
     
  17. badgas

    badgas I like dirt

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    I have taken many rides on a 29er with roadies. They were flat 15-20 mile rides down the river trail and the roadies were not riding their fastest. It all depends on who you ride with. If I went out and bought a road bike today with all the goodies that go along with it I still could not keep up 1/2 the people on the road.

    No wrong answer here just go try it and if you like it then thats what matters.

    I have bought and sold 2 road bikes because neither were as comfortable as my El mariachi on the road :?:
     
  18. blindman_22

    blindman_22 HAB Crew President

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    good info. just not used to seeing others posting that much info. just busting yours and varaxis' chops
     
  19. cyclotourist

    cyclotourist Member

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    Great question! As others have said, it depends on what you mean by road riding and with who. If it's social w/ friends, then by all means go for it. The biggest problems will be gearing (presumably) and a lack of hand position options after a couple hours. That's the best thing about having drops. If it's a more competitive and fast paced group ride, you'll be at a disadvantage with those and weight and position/geometry and probably won't enjoy it very much.

    My best answer: Get a cross bike like the Kona Rove that will take road tires but also let you run monstercross style tires. That'll let you ride comfortably with the roadies, and also let you ride all the local fire roads and a good chunk of single track in comfort.

    My $.02
     
  20. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors Climbing > desending

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    My 1/12 of two bits:

    I've ridden my 32-lb MTB on a couple of century rides; a couple of homegrown 70-80 mile road routes, and several 50-mile rides; and I've done my 35 mile round trip commute a couple times.

    I've also done 130 miles on my road bike, along with many 80 mile what-the-hecks, and short notice 50+. Along with 3-4 times a week commuting on said 35-mile round trip above.

    The MTB can't keep up. it's a better workout if that's what you're looking for, but you'll never keep up with the road bikes. Not with anyone in halfway decent shape, anyway.

    That said, ride what you have, save your pennies to get what you want, and drool in the meantime. Remember: There will ALWAYS be someone faster or stronger than you.

    FWIW, I have a triple on the MTB: 44/34(I think)/22 paired up with a 12/34. I have a compact (50/34) on the road bike paired with an 11/28.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2014

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