WHY can't roadies understand it's single-file?

On more than one occasion I've turned on my emergency lights while driving by any large group of roadies especially on PCH. I've been thanked for this many times by the cyclist whom I meet on the road. Being courteous is a good thing!

 

When thinking of cyclists think in the same way you would a motorcycle. We are allowed to ride two abreast, same as a motorcycle,it is legal everywhere in this state. Cyclist have a share in the road and if we want to ride two abreast and we are not impeding traffic it's fine. When we are a group ride we tend to bunch up much like cars do when you get to many in a small place. Get over it we are not taking up enough room that you'll not be able to get around us. Other countries don't have this problem mostly because they don't have this sense of entitlement like we do have here. People get behind the wheel and they change, now it's MY lane, now it's my turn to take this lane, damn people get out of my way. Problem doesn't lie with cyclists taking a little more of a lane it starts and ends with bad drivers. What a lot of folks who don't ride road don't understand is the inherent dangers we face riding so close to the right. That's where all the trash ends up. Stuff that can't take your front tire out from under you before you can even start to react. The roads are in bad shape in these areas as they have lips and divots along with other imperfections that are a real hazard to us. And guess what, a motorist makes no distinction between a mountain biker and a roadie, to them we are all the same so spreading ill will towards a certain segment of the cycling community does nothing but hurt us all.

 

Reading what Pain Freak said, I was reminded of the roads in Redlands. There were some roads that I commonly rode on that were repaved when I lived there. Before being repaved they had fairly generous bike lanes. When they repaved them they only repaved to about 6 inches past the start of the bike lane. This effectively eliminated most of the bike lane and force cyclists to ride much closer to traffic than they previously had to. There are so many sides to this issue, but when cities and counties have lots of bike paths, bike lanes and bike awareness it makes it better for all people who use the roadway.

 

Try it sometime and you'll understand why they do it. You can throw statutes and arguments on paper back and forth all day, but put your ass on that saddle, and it comes down to this:

When you ride single file, every driver on the road will attempt to squeeze their car between you and oncoming traffic at any speed, regardless of how little room there is. Riding two abreast doubles your visibility, and cars slow down, wait for a window, and properly pass you with a safe margin.

The distinct impression of safety in numbers is why everyone winds up doing it.

You can try calculating proportions of how many self-absorbed, emotionally unstable drivers will then want to run you over, but when you also pay attention to the weekly notices of those killed riding SoCal roads, it's damn near always a solo rider on the shoulder getting hit by an overtaking car going too fast, too close, with the driver claiming to not have seen them off on the shoulder. Riding double feels safer, and when it's your life on the line, you'll find yourself doing what feels safest, statutes bedamned.

For you, the driver, it's no different than having to pass a slow moving car or farm implement. Yet for someone so bothered about the precious seconds passing other people on the road costs them, you ought to be glad you don't also have to sit and wait for every single person on a group ride to come to a complete stop at every stop sign in front of you, stretching their numbers out into a mile long single-file line. ....that has right-of-way. ...& blocks off all the right hand turns for a half an hour everywhere they go. Among other impracticalities.

1st priority is safety. 2nd priority is minimizing obstructing the flow of traffic. Thus, riding in a herd, and flowing through stops in one quick lump.

There are calculated reasons behind every behavior.

 

Day One on a Downey Cyclery road ride had us cruising along in a double pace line. That formation works because riders peel off the front into the windward line and create a windbreak for those coming forward. A rider stays in front for as little as a few pedal strokes then pulls off to the resting side and eases off the gas. He or she drifts to the back then works back up to the front. It works because its a predictable way for a group to travel along efficiently without taking up much of the road.

Generally a group like this can stay in a bike lane, if it exists, but they have every right to move to their left if there are obstructions or debris on the shoulder. As a cyclist, I learned that concept 38 years ago and its a wonder drivers haven't gotten used to (or been trained to deal with) it yet.

Also, riders are well advised to stay out of range of parked cars so they don't get doors opened on them. Can you imagine cruising along at 25 mph and having some bonehead shove his door into your front wheel? We used to look through the rear windshields to see if anyone was in the driver's seat, but that became pointless with so many headrests blocking our view.. better to stay 3 or 4 feet out. (Why cars are allowed to legally park in bike lanes and put cyclists into 50 mph traffic is beyond me, but that happens a lot around South Orange County.)

As stated above, its perplexing to have mountain bikers angry at road cyclists. Lots of our rides have us on pavement at least part of the time, so we have to deal with uneducated, hostile, intoxicated, negligent and/or impatient drivers as well. In fact, side by side mountain bikers blissfully chatting away in a bike lane will often force road cyclists into traffic lanes to get around us. Try having a little more awareness and understanding of what's going on out there, and be an example to non-cycling drivers when driving your car near bicyclists.

 

And the fact remains that a car or truck wins every single time. Stay out of the lane if you can't do the speed limit. It doesn't matter if you have the right to be there. It's much more important to realize that you will lose every single time against a motor vehicle. Is it really worth getting squashed to make a pretty ridiculous point that you have a "right" to be there?

There are way more drivers than riders. Deal with it.

 

Stay out the wilderness, mountain lions will win.

Stay off the freeway in your car, big rigs will always win.

Pretty sound logic....#-o

 

Seems like you missed the point of why it's done.

 

Nope, I didn't miss the point. I know why it's done. I commute 100 or so miles per week by bike during DST. But I still have heartburn with riders getting into the traffic lane when they have room on the shoulder. I should have been clearer about that.

But I still maintain that if you cannot do the speed limit you shouldn't be in the lane. Period. There are other routes not as heavily traveled by motor vehicles that will get you there just as quickly. Or be just as fun.

 

I dunno.....I get behind people on the road all the time who don't go anywhere near the speed limit.

 

Looks like a lot of rationalization to me about why doing what you want is ok even though it's unecessary and inconsiderate.

 

Soooo, here you're asserting that riders move into the lane simply to exercise their right to be there.

And in both quotes you state that riders should stay out of the lane if they can't do the speed limit, as if it's a minimum, not a maximum speed.

You make it sound like the ability to maintain that minimum earns one the right to be in the lane. I disagree, but OK fine. But since you have experience riding on the road, do you stay as far right as possible when you can't match speeds with motor vehicles? If so, do you ride immediately next to parked cars, or in the gutter where you're more likely to ride through trash or poorly-maintained surfaces?

 

"Let it go, let it go" (singing the song from Frozen in my head)...

4 pages of bickering about who has what right to ride where on any given road? Rights has nothing to do with it. Answer - weight ratios and calculated risk. Choose wisely and please be careful and courteous out there as riders and drivers!

Can you imagine if there were over 60 deaths a year from shark attacks in SoCal every year? Or if 60+ skiers/snowboarders died at local ski areas annually? I cannot begin to imagine what the reaction might be. But over 60 cyclists mowed down annually in SoCal = just another year.

 

How many people were killed in car accidents not involving bikes? Do you still drive?

 

Yes, they do just to exercise their right to be there; either that or they're truly stupid. I saw it again today, on San Gabriel Canyon Road (Hwy 39). Winding mountain road, room enough on the shoulder for one bike, so riders should be single file. Tons of 4WD folks headed for East Fork ORVA. Yet I see more than one pair of riders with the left-hand rider in the lane. Going uphill. At maybe 5 mph. On blind curves. No valid reason for them to do that (I was riding my MTB on the same road, no debris etc). They apparently couldn't delay their conversation.

And yes, when I ride on the road I ride next to parked cars, slow enough that I can react without swerving into traffic lanes. I also choose routes where the speed limit is 35 or less, where possible. And I know what's coming up behind me, and when I can move out into the lane to avoid debris. I can't count the number of times I've seen morons riding the wrong way on a street with a protected bike lane on the other side, even when it means riding through a construction area where there flat out isn't room for a bike and car. Did I mention they're going the wrong direction on a one way street???

Maybe it comes from 35 years of riding motorcycles. I watch for cars because they don't watch for me and I don't expect them to.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for idiots who become road kill. BTW, I drive way more miles than I ride. I'll give you plenty of room, even if you're stupid, while you're on your bike and impeding my ability to proceed at the posted speed limit. I'm watching out for you. Please try to remember that I'm one of the very few that will. But I won't like it, and I won't shed a tear if you get run over.

And maybe someday, even though I'm doing everything right, some idiot will run me over from behind. C'est la vie. It's a risk we take, but let's agree that we can and should minimize the risk by using common sense.

 

Huh? I never said nor implied that you or I shouldn't ride a road bike. Kind of an odd reaction, Chopper, but it fits the bickering tone of the thread I suppose.

Road riding is a form of recreation for most, not a necessity. The stats are alarming, so my suggestion instead of bickering about whether or not you have the right to be in a traffic lane is to be extremely careful and weigh your odds as to how far into the lane you choose to ride. Hugging the inside is dangerous with debris, uneven surfaces, car doors, sudden right turns, etc. Riding into the traffic lane is dangerous with distracted and discourteous drivers plus the speed differential. It's a challenge to keep yourself safe. There is no one right approach that applies on all roads and in all situations.

I also reminded motorists and riders to be careful and courteous.

Finally, I pointed out that road riding is deadlier than other forms of recreation, but those deaths don't get the attention they deserve.

PS: I don't really drive as a form of recreation, but the fatality odds per driver/mile in SoCal are certainly much, much lower than the fatality odds of cyclist/miles. With airbags, seatbelts, crumple zones, reinforced frames, 4000 lbs of mass and such, yes, I put the chances of surviving a car crash as much, much higher than a vehicle v cyclist crash.

Ooops - now I am bickering. My bad.

Be careful out there on the roads as motorists and cyclists!!!!!

 

But if it's not safe to argue on the 'net, where will we do it? I mean, I'm not supposed to post too close to a pointless back-and-forth, and I certainly can't post into the wheel-size lane...what's a forum member to do? :wave::lol:

 

[youtube]CMNry4PE93Y[/youtube]

 

[video=youtube_share;1sONfxPCTU0]http://youtu.be/1sONfxPCTU0[/video]

 

And this is just too apropos not to share. This past Saturday, May 10, I rode the Tour of Long Beach. I'm riding home on a shared use trail (Long Beach beach bike path) headed south, and a gaggle of roadies headed north are 4 and 5 abreast...needless to say taking up the entire path. I yell out (more than once) to move right. They ignore me. I have nowhere to go; joggers and a utility pole on my right, morons on my left. The upside is I'm on my mountain bike. Much more massive & stable. Moron going north actually sideswiped me. She went down; I didn't. I make sure she wasn't brain damaged...by the crash, anyway...and help her up, make sure her gears still work and her tires still spin, and off I go. I hope she and her group learned a valuable lesson, although I doubt it.

Why, oh why, can't you simply pay attention? Use some common sense? Do you drive the wrong way on the freeway too?