Ust/Tubeless Tires Help/Advise(merged/sticky)

Discussion in 'The Workshop' started by berringer, May 26, 2009.

  1. kaboomims

    kaboomims New Member

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    Hey guys,

    I picked up a used bike that was outfitted with UST Bontrager tubeless tires on fulcrum redmetal wheels. I LOVE the way the tubeless rides, and the front tire has been perfect, but the back tire has been a battle. I cleaned out the rim, cleaned the bead, added fresh sealant, and set the bead with high pressure air compressor but no matter what I keep getting leaking at the bead, sitting or riding. Sometimes a lot of leaking, other times just losing 10-20 psi over a week sitting. The tire is old... has enough tread but you can see that the rubber itself is pretty old. So my question is, does age by itself cause sealing issues?
    I'm about at witt's end with this whole tubeless deal!

    Thanks for any advice,

    Ian
     
  2. trailninja

    trailninja Going Slideways!!!! Staff Member

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    From experience I always find it easier on a new set of tubeless tires to mount them with a tube first by pumping it up to 40 psi or so until it seats into the rim. I then deflate the tire and using a tire lever on one side of the tire loosen it up and remove the tire and install the tubeless valve stem only one side needs to be unseated. By doing this one side of the tire should still be seated into the rim making it easier to fill and pump up. Once you remove the tube and valve stem reseat the tire and leave a gap large enough to pour the liquid into. I always use double of the recommended volume of liquid to make sure everything gets sealed properly. Make sure you use a floor pump or compressor and slosh it around once you get it inflated also flip the tire on its side every 15-20 minutes or so.

     
  3. bry n

    bry n Member

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    just spent 3 hours getting a maxxis ignitor to seal.... *smashes head on wall*
     
  4. grimix

    grimix New Member

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    My $0.001. Went tubeless 21 days ago and racked up 280 miles on them since.

    Stan Flows arrived and planned to run tubes till I needed new tires, but decided to mount my existing tires (non-UST) because I was told "those should mount up anyway".

    Front: Kenda Nevegal, fairly new-- seated and inflated real nice with floor pump but wasn't sealing and I wasn't going to spend more than 30 minutes trying.

    Rear: Maxis High Roller, pretty old -- forget about it. Would not seat even with compressor.


    I was faced with sticking tubes in and wearing out tires.

    So I ordered a pair of UST WBT Weirwolfs after 20 hours of research on what tread I thought I wanted to try next.


    So, new Flows with new UST tires... seated and sealed in seconds with a floor pump. Absolutely brilliant. Easy. No tire levers. Happy happy joy joy. 21 days ago.

    I have NOT put any air in and run near 300 miles. If they ARE losing pressure they just get better.


    Ride observations: It's like sex without a condom. You feel everything. Surface transitions. You hear everything. Your seat and hands have a new level of feedback. Sooooo smooth. But rocky stuff is smoother.

    I roll over artichoke thistle by accident now and don't get off my bike to change a flat.

    Ride quality is way better, and peace of mind is lovely. Less screwing around pumping air in before every ride.

    Best decision I made was to go tubeless.

    Caveats:

    a) Have replacement Presta valve-cores at HOME or in your bag because these flimsy pieces of crap will break if you look at them wrong, and they can be hard to find short notice.

    b) I still ride with tube/pump in bag just out of habit, and I won't stop, but I sure don't expect to need it. With tubes, I sure as hell used it every 4th ride.
     
  5. templar

    templar Member

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    I am finally planning to go tubeless but need some advice...

    I have a DT Swiss tubeless ready rims (with the tubeless valvues) and Specialized 2Bliss tires, do you think I need "Stan's Tubeless kit" or do you think I can just add the Stan's sealant?

    Would the kit make it easier to go tubeless and offer better tubeless experience?

    Thanks
     
  6. zioncoming79

    zioncoming79 Old Man Dead

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    You can just use the sealant and tape from the kit. The rim tape which comes with the wheel set sucks. One word of advice; sand down the paint on the surface where the rim tape goes, them clean it off with rubbing alcohol. Let it dry, the install the rim tape. The tape bonds to the surface much better this way.
     
  7. templar

    templar Member

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    ^^^Thanks. Sounds like getting the Kit would be a good investment.
     
  8. zioncoming79

    zioncoming79 Old Man Dead

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    You can buy the sealant ($20), valve stems($15 for 2) and tape ($5) "a la carte". The kit will cost around $65. You will end up not using the rim strips (I didn't).
     
  9. TrailBlaza

    TrailBlaza New Member

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    Just FYI, I have DT swiss rims converted to tubeless and have over 1500 miles without a flat on my front maxxis minion and my rear nevegal. I have had an occasional puncture but I never even had to pump the tire back up because it sealed so fast. Tubeless is the way to go, but I wish the installation was easier on wider rims.

    I need to replace my front minion tire and was looking for some recommendations for a new non-wire bead front between 2.35 and 2.5 in size. The minion is pretty heavy and I wanted to lighten my bike up a bit.
     
  10. cyclotourist

    cyclotourist Member

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    Need some help on this one: I was riding today on NoTubes Crest rims, Maxxis Ignitor tires running tubelss around 27lbs pressure (recommended on Stan's site) and WHAM! front tire blows off as I'm going around a corner on the trail! I got dumped pretty hard when the front end washed out after the decompression, but nothing broken, sprained, or strained! I put a tube in and limped home. Anywho, although I'm ok, I'm kind of scared to set back up as tubeless. Really worried this will happen again when I'm going faster, or on a real exposed sketchy trail. I LOVE the Ignitors, but are they just no good w/ the Crest rims? Did I set up wrong, is this a compatability problem, or is it just inherent w/ tubeless? FWIW, I have a few hundred miles on this set up, and a little burp before, but nothing like this. HELP!
     
  11. dcrfx

    dcrfx Member

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    Maybe run a little higher PSI? I went tubeless about a month ago and was concerned with having the issue you describe. I run mine at 35psi and have had zero problems riding some fairly chunky trails. I have UST rims and non-UST/non-tubeless ready tires (kenda 2.3 front, Conti trail king 2.2 rear). My understanding is with UST or tubeless ready tires on UST rims, then you can drop the psi since they have the bead lock to the rim which regular tires don't have. I don't want to take the chance with lower psi on my "regular" tires. (not sure if the Crest rims are UST or have some other bead locking method, sure other more experienced with them will chime in).
     
  12. cyclotourist

    cyclotourist Member

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    Yeah, I guess that could be it, but low pressure is supposed to be one of the benefits of tubeless.
    I did look carefully at the rim strip, and notice most of it was the thinner 21mm type. But a section over the valve hole was the 25mm kind. This went up the shoulders and onto the sidewalls. It definitely reduced the surface area there as well as the amount of the lip available to grab the bead.

    So here's what I'm doing: trimmed the rim tape down ~2mm on each side in that section, buying a tubeless ready tire (Kenda Slant Six) and gonna try it.

    Anyone think I'm missing anything here?

    BTW, how do the Slant Sixes work here? Mostly fireroads and dry singletrack, occasional riding on SART.
     
  13. RumbleOn

    RumbleOn New Member

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    I went back to tubes after a couple explosive decrompressions like you had. They hurt too much. I was running Bontrager Rhythm Elites with Bontrager tires and Bontrager UST kit and they still blew out. I am now running Easton Havens, no strips needed, and I usually run Speshy Captain/Purgatory with no issues and I like just under 30psi. As for the slant 6 I really don't like it but I ride trails mostly, I have found they are no good for loose over hardpack. I don't want to soudn like a Specialized salesman, but look at the Fastrack it was okay with the old design, I hear they made some improvements this year. I have an almost new 29er slant 6 if you can use it it's yours.
     
  14. Waldo

    Waldo Lebowski Urban Achiever

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    I've only had one burp/decompression like you described, and it was on a fast, sweeping turn when I had accidentally let the air pressure get too low (and I was probably 220lbs with gear on at the time). I ran Ignitors F&R for a while, and then opted for something with a little more bite up from while still using the Ignitor on the rear. I usually ran pressures in the low 30's when I used Ignitors, though I've since reduced it further (but with diff tires). My biggest reason for switching from the Ignitors was that I had several cases of the dreaded golf-ball sized delaminations with them. I've been running mostly Schwalbe tires since, though I have a Specialized captain rear right now, and haven't had delam problems since switching off Maxxis.

    I once got too wide with Stan's rim tape and tried to make it work, but had problems both with sealing and with the bead popping off where the tape wrapped too far up the inside of the rim. That tape scenario you mentioned sounds like a possible problem to me, based on my experience.

    Check with your favorite LBS - they should be able to give some suggestions of tires that play well with your rims. Good luck!
     
  15. cyclotourist

    cyclotourist Member

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    I noticed the wide tape crawling up the walls a bit, and took to my LBS. They had no idea, but thought that might be it. The tire bead itself "feels" fine running your hands along it. Rim isn't dinged up. I'm considering trying tubeless again, but want to be conservative in the tire choice, going w/ a known good tire compatible w/ Crest rims. Any recommendations for the group. I searched, and seems like every tire is recommended at least once, and is panned as problematic at least once. LBS is less than helpful ("We can order you whatever you want"). It looked like the Slant Six would work good, but Rumble On above says not so good on loose over hardpack... you know, all of Southern California trails! :)

    Did I mention my right side is still totally sore from Saturday's kiss the dirt?
     
  16. un-kola

    un-kola Just another Homer!

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    Why are you guys wasting your time and money with the ghetto tubeless set-up? Get a dedicated UST rim and be done with it. The ghetto set-up didn't work for me in '04, and still doesn't work well today and standard tire sidewalls are still porous and leak air and sealant. For the amount of money you're spending on rim strips and kits you could buy a pair of Mavic-819s hoops laced to your old hubs, mount on some tubeless ready or UST tires, add some Stan's juice, and be on your way. You'll be much happier campers with one less thing to think about. -Lloyd :wave:
     
  17. cyclotourist

    cyclotourist Member

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    I'm researching UST/Tubeless-ready tires right now, but the Stan's Crest rims are tubeless rims.
     
  18. babu9000

    babu9000 New Member

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    To add to the knowledge base...

    I just did a set of Racing Ralph Evo's on Giant S-XC 29er wheels. Could not have been easier. Used Gorilla Tape, a little soapy water and two red scoops of Stan's in each wheel. Aired up first try. The Racing Ralph Evo's are tubeless ready, but they have a pretty good amount of pin hole leaks in the sidewall. They get sealed up when I swoosh the Stan's around, but I'll have to keep and eye on them.
     
  19. dudevf1

    dudevf1 New Member

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    More experience...set up Bontrager TLR Mustang with standard Nevegal front and Slant 6 back, using Stans valves and sealant. Slant 6 has held up perfectly, really cool when it works. Nevegal was a PITA, but it's an older tire and worn, whereas the Slant 6 was brand new. After much use with the compressor and cups and cups of sealant and numerous rides, had to admit defeat and go back to a tube with the Nevegal. Once the Nevegal tire wears out I'll try it again with a new tire, maybe a different brand and maybe UST? Although until I prepped to do this I had no idea that UST tires were so heavy and so expensive and such little selection.
     
  20. Tedroy

    Tedroy Active Member

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    Mavic Crossmax St... Tubeless Nevegals front & rear... stans juice. No flats in 2 years. I keep replacing the juice every 4 months or so. Bulletproof so far.
     

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