Tubeless vs Tube(merged/sticky)

Discussion in 'The Workshop' started by ECOdork, Apr 6, 2006.

  1. zombiefiesta

    zombiefiesta New Member

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    Hey, I have a ghetto tubeless set up using 20" BMX tubes. It works great, but I also have the 3M tape over the rim holes. I don't know if it's necessary, but I haven't tried it without. My set up is very similar to this.

    I am running non-tubeless tires, non tubeless rims, and stans sealant. It's very light and cheap.

    Here's how I did it:

    1. Stretch a 20" tube over the rim, installing the valve stem, etc. Use a 24" if you have 29" wheels.

    2. Find the seam or line of the tube opposite the valve stem. Using a scissors, cut the tube there, and then cut lengthwise along this line for the entire tube. Stay centered on the outside of the tube.

    3. Fold the cut edges out so that the inside of the tube is exposed.

    4. Mount your tire. This is harder than normal with the tube in there. The idea is to pinch the bmx tube in between the rim and the tire bead. Mount the first bead, and then mount most of the second bead.

    5. When most of the 2nd bead is mounted, pour in your sealant. Then mount the tire completely.

    6. Pump it up! Pump it up really fast, or use an air compressor. You'll hear a bunch of hissing, keep pumping like mad.

    7. When the tire is inflated, and only hissing mildly, shake the wheel, rotate it every which way, etc, to distribute the sealant.

    8. Once it's not hissing, Use a scissors to trim off the excess flaps of tube sticking out.

    9. Ride.


    ALSO:

    Continental makes presta valve tubes with removable valve cores. You can use these to refill sealant, or just unmount some of the bead, and pour it in.
     
  2. zombiefiesta

    zombiefiesta New Member

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    ghetto tubeless

    As for how it works, I rode it (a lot) for 6 months with no flats, but eventually tore a larger hole in the sidewall of my tire when my sealant was too dry. I had to boot it and put a tube in. I was using very light XC racing tires though.

    I haven't had any problems with the bead coming off or with burping air out. I've definitely had small punctures that sealed quickly.

    I ride technical XC (merrills, Mt. Wilson trail, etc), and was going 30/34 psi with 2.1" tires. (I'm 150-160 lbs). I occasionally have gone lower, but I'm worried about dinging the rim. Hardtails are a little rougher on the rear rim anyway.

    As far as I can tell from my limited experience, this is every bit as effective as stans or UST, and requires no tubeless-specific gear, other than the sealant.
     
  3. stevers

    stevers Member

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    Ok, I got another tube vs tubeless question. It seems to me that everyone loves the tubeless setup because of the ability to run lower pressure, and therefore avoid pinch flats. Yes, there are thorns that sealants will work to seal up, but that's not restricted to just tubeless. There are sealants for tubes, so the thorn don't consider this a factor.

    So if the whole tubeless shtick is about running low pressure and avoiding pinch flats, wouldn't it mean you're slamming down on your rims? This can't be good for the wheelset (I dunno, just guessing). I.e. - if you're running pressure low enough to pinch a tube against your rims, you're running tubeless to freely hit your rims without the consequence of flatting. Anyone have issues bending rims on a tubeless setup?

    Also, I wonder about tubeless tire pressures. I'm about 260lbs. If I ran 30psi tubeless, I'm thinking I'd have massive rolling resistance, plus issues when doing jumps (1-2ft).
     
  4. CalEpic

    CalEpic member

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    This is true - you can dent the rim when running tubeless with too low pressure. The difference vs. tubes is that in most cases you're not getting a pinch flat when it happens. I have cut the bead on non-ust tires when this happens on occasion but never on a UST tire. This is with UST rims. On standard rims, I don't think I'd use UST tires. They're heavier, cost more and you're not getting the benefit of a matched bead surface on the rim.

    If you're 260 lbs and running 30 psi, IMO you're asking for trouble regardless of your set up.
     
  5. stevers

    stevers Member

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    That makes sense. So the snakebite resistance is really something to mitigate consequence. It doesn't mean you can/should run lower pressure.

    So at my weight, I need to run higher tire pressure, so I'd see basically no real benefit of tubeless. If I'm getting pinch flats, I need to increase my pressure or adjust my riding. Either way, tubeless isn't really a "solution", per se.
     
  6. CalEpic

    CalEpic member

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    I personally believe everyone can benefit from tubeless. UST rims and tires offer too many advantages to ride any other way.

    Forgetting all the other benefits, almost never flatting from pinch or thorn is huge. At 260 lbs just up the psi you're running. what works best for you I can't say but it certainly won't be higher than what you'd need with tubes.

    I would stick with an UST tire/rim and you won't have problems. Conversions of non-UST tires/rims works for many people and I've done it in the past but it's not as trouble free as a true UST set-up. Especially if you ride aggressively.
     
  7. olis1

    olis1 Member

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    For comparison, I don't run tubeless, weigh about 210 lbs and usually run about 35 psi. I'll drop to 30 if the ride has more sand or loose stuff.
     
  8. stevers

    stevers Member

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    Thanks for the input and comparison. To clarify, my 30psi reference was a relative example. For bigger 2.4" tires, I run 35psi up front, 40psi in the rear. For thinner 2.0 tires for more XC/all days, I run 50psi up front 55-60psi in the rear. Of course, terrain, riding style, tire size, rim width, etc. will all play a role in psi.

    That said, I don't think there are any tires that should be run at 35ps for 200+ clydes doing jumps, even small 1-2ft ones.
     
  9. quikflip27

    quikflip27 It Hurts So GOOD!

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    considering keeping all things even: tire, tire pressure, and riding terrain that doesn't give me thorn flats or pinch flats with a tubed setup...what benefits would I get out of going tubeless?
    I'm at a happy compromise tire and pressure combo that is grippy enough, rolls well enough, and keeps flats away, so what do I have to gain from going t/l? Thanks
     
  10. Jay

    Jay Round is a lifestyle.

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    I am in the same weight range as you are and have been running tubeless for about a year now. I have actually had more flats running tubeless than running tubes. I keep cutting sidewalls and the stans will not seal it. In both recent cases, it would not have been deep enough to hit the tube. I probably need to invest in some different tires with better sidewall protection. I am using DT 5.1's with a rimstrip so I dont have a UST tire or rim.

    I run about 30 psi in the front and about 35psi in the rear. I am a pretty aggressive rider and do drops and jumps up to about 4 feet. I have not burped a tire or had any other similar issues.


     
  11. Pho'dUp

    Pho'dUp Spam Musubi MasherSS

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    Don't forget to tape under that rim strip! :beer:
     
  12. Chewyeti

    Chewyeti Circus Bear

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    why?

    if you swap a tube it makes sense tho.... i used to carry a roll of elec tape with me LOL:bang:
     
  13. Pho'dUp

    Pho'dUp Spam Musubi MasherSS

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    On a stan's rim. Slashed tire. Need to tube it, you need some kind of tape. Electric tape is smart. Better than the ghetto ace wrap and duct tape job we did on Jay's rim.

     
  14. ShockTheraphy

    ShockTheraphy New Member

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    Hello, I'm getting tired of flatting due to goat heads. Can anybody recommend the most cheapest and decent true UST wheelset and tubeless tires setup?
     
  15. profnachos

    profnachos Member

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    Tried to wade through this thread only to discover that much of it is Greek to me.

    I have a Specialized RockHopper 29er singlespeed. Love the bike, but lately the flats have gotten to be way too frequent. Flats are bad especially if you are riding in an event.

    Spoke with my LBS which told me my wheels can't accommodate the tubeless.

    Recommended wheels are: DT 240 hubs, Stanz 355 rims for $750! :( Again, all Greek to me, but I paid $700 for the whole bike!!!

    Thoughts?
     
  16. Revalimage

    Revalimage Active Member

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    As Dean says, 'google is your friend' -- Google 'ghetto tubeless' You should find all you need there.

    And NO, you do not have to spend $700 for tubeless wheels - you might want to find a new LBS... You might have to spend more than $100 though, you really SHOULD run a UST tire for this.
     
  17. Phishin Paul

    Phishin Paul Team Hardcore Cornbread

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    Your cheapest way to go tubeless is the Stans conversion kit http://www.notubes.com/Stans-Tubeless-Kits-C12.aspx

    I did this years ago before I switched completely to UST and now Stans Flow rims. The tubeless kit worked but I did burp more than once. Since running true UST I have never had an issue. Also, shop around if you pull the trigger on a new wheelset. I would recommend the Stans Arch or Flow rims over 355 for riding around here. There are many options including Mavic.

    Also, if you are getting a lot of pinched flats use a 26 inch tube instead of 29er.
     
  18. MacGuyVer

    MacGuyVer Member.. You Member

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    [video=youtube;WRM7gq1fcoQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRM7gq1fcoQ[/video]
     
  19. MacGuyVer

    MacGuyVer Member.. You Member

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    [video=youtube;PwON2VxZL0g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwON2VxZL0g&feature=fvwrel[/video]
     
  20. ManInAShed

    ManInAShed New Member

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    I have resisted tubeless til this last weekend. The promise of "no flats ever" has finally convinced me. ...to spend three hours, tear a big patch of skin off my hands, break 4 tire levers, yanking the $500 wheel back just before it smashes against the wall, and finally taking the $%^& thing into a shop to have them do it, only to have them go through the same hell before eventually putting a bead stretcher on it overnight and still barely getting it on the next day.

    I pray to the mountain biking gods it never goes flat on a ride, cause that sucker is never coming off without a pair of wire snips.

    Not sure I'm a fan.
     

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