Santiago Oaks Trailwork

Discussion in 'Trail Conditions' started by MnMDan, Nov 30, 2015.

  1. MnMDan

    MnMDan Member

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    Rather than add onto the previous thread, or create one that is date specific...here we go:

    https://www.facebook.com/events/172239069788064/

    As of today, we have 20+ interested, 20+ going, and moisture in the soil. We're assessing the areas with drainage issues revealed by the previous rain, and those areas where we can add some shape and sustainability for future work days.
     
  2. Drum n MTB

    Drum n MTB Member

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    Why were rocks removed from Hawk?
     
  3. da big hills

    da big hills happy night trails

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    I h8 trail neutering days. I do my part, tossing big steamers off the tread, snapping back branches that over hang, clean out water bars before the rains. Sometimes I think about doing more, like raking off deep screed and floaters, but in the end I would rather ride. I feel trails pretty much maintain themselves and I am a minimalist when it comes to fixing what mother nature has created.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2015
  4. MnMDan

    MnMDan Member

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    Hawk was 'restored' in some lower portions where riders had created unsustainable lines to go around certain features that were kept when the bottom exit was re-routed 3-4 years ago. Most of what was done was limited to narrowing the trails, getting any water off the trail as quickly as possible, and removing cut-throughs.

    Like it or not, Hawk (as with all the other ones there) is a heavily-used, multi-use, two-way trail. While we gain significant positive currency with the work done to allow for a sustainable trail to be kept open, we need to do so within the guidelines...that does not mean turning everything into buffed-out flow trails for beginners, but making sensible trade-offs.

    Oh...and Hawk's volunteer responsible for coordinating its maintenance (with the approval of OC Parks) has been riding it for over a decade and considers it mellow.

    There's another trail day coming up in January (date to be confirmed)...be nice to see you come out when the dirt is wet to do some shaping.
     
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  5. Obsidian

    Obsidian New Member

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    I did not ride Hawk today, but someone seriously sanitized Chutes Ridgeline — the steep, loose section in particular. All the loose rocks were swept to the side and stacked, leaving a smooth, bare dirt path. At the first rain the water will go straight down that dirt path and rut it.

    If I had not been tired and at the end of my ride, I would have ridden back up and undid that nonsense. If nobody does it before my next ride there I will fix it then.

    There was some similar nonsense done to some parts of Peralta as well.

    Leave the trails alone.
     
  6. MnMDan

    MnMDan Member

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    I invite you out to the next trail work. You can contribute your feedback to the trail workers, rangers, riders, hikers, and other volunteers who have been riding, and working the trails over the previous decade. It will be incorporated into the work that is being done...

    On Chutes, you are more than welcome to ride the side where the rocks remain, or the side where the rocks were swept from and the braking bumps remain. As it is a ridgeline trail, it sheds water in the way it did before, as the drainage patterns were not altered and the drainage outlets were cleaned out. The nonsense you speak of was done at the request of OC Parks, and performed by approved volunteers in a manner consistent with maintaining the sustainability of the trail. Thank you for volunteering that you will be undoing said hours of trail work by volunteers who have been working the trails for the past several years. I rode both sides on Friday...both were fun...the rock-side was actually more challenging with the extra rocks.

    On Peralta, I will take responsibility (along with the dozen+ workers, experienced riders, and OC Parks Rangers) for the nonsense you speak of, as well as the nonsense of narrowing the trail, raking the baby heads out of the center of the trail to define the edges of said trail as single-double track to prevent further widening, and cleaning/prepping the trail for rain and future opportunities to shape the trail to keep it fun, fast, and safe for all trail users.

    Grasshopper received the same treatment near the bottom.

    Again, your efforts would be better spent on working with the MTB community to maintain the trails and increase their sustainability. We had nearly 60 volunteers...it would be nice to have that many at the next work party when we expect moisture in the soil so that we can be more productive.

    Thanks again for your feedback.
     
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  7. Obsidian

    Obsidian New Member

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    There was no reason to touch it at that spot other than to add an easy line ... it was perfectly fine the way it was. With the way the rocks were stacked right next to the path, it won't take long for it to revert.
     
  8. xtremeMTB

    xtremeMTB Member

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    What's up with moving rocks off the trails why not fix real issues I am seeing, although I have no real knowledge how to maintain or build trails.

    Like going down the dam on that gravel section into the park. It's getting really bad people are cutting around it and you have to bunny hop over the concrete to get down safely. Seems like just a matter of time before someone superman off and file lawsuits. (This maybe private property if I recall correctly)

    Also the braking bumps are getting really bad on the rocky section of Chutes its getting really hard to get down. I'm talking about the section with the 180 switchback right after the downhill gravel section. Not that I'm complaining I love it but in a year it's been getting really bad doesn't seem like it's sustainable
     
  9. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej Well-Known Member

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    It used to be soooo much more dangerous before they put the curb there.....it used to just be an asphalt hump that you could just boost off of.....problem was at those speeds going into a blind jump.....there was no way to see riders/hikers/horses coming up until it was too late. The curb is there to slow you down to prevent the problems I just described.

    That corner you speak of on Chutes Ridgeline....has been fixed several times. However all you have to do is sit there and watch rider after rider lock up the back wheel coming into that turn. No matter what gets done there...it will revert back to the braking bumps.
     
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  10. Brianatapg

    Brianatapg New Member

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    For those of you who may have ridden the Oaks and the surrounding hills 20 years ago you will no doubt appreciate the hard work that has gone into the building and maintenance of this trail system we enjoy. Back then the trails were few, shaped by nature and stayed that way for better or worse.
     
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  11. da big hills

    da big hills happy night trails

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    I always found skidding half way thru the turn makes you faster, skidding into a turn makes you a dick.
     
  12. MnMDan

    MnMDan Member

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    Note: Next trail work day is tentatively scheduled for January 9th.

    Hopefully, El Nino will be in full swing and we'll have some soil moisture so that we can adjust some things to preserve/add some tech/flow where it'll survive a summer of dryness. Even with the recent rains, the dirt is still too dry to do much of anything besides clean out the water diversions and make sure ruts don't form/get deeper. 99% of the ongoing work on the trails is from the volunteers who have adopted that particular trail and cleared the work with the rangers. I'll post an update as that date firms up. There's a lot of opinions, and a lot of work that could be done. I think the last thing anyone wants is for a trail to turn into a fire-road...we have enough of those.
     
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  13. FD Pezman

    FD Pezman Member

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    A lot of us view trail sanitation as a negative, which depending on whats being sanitized could be viewed differently. From my perspective, cleaning cobble rocks off the trail is like putting icing on the cake. Its a pain in the ass to rake all those rocks off and I'm sure the person who's doing it isn't thinking about the few diehards out there who loves skiing through them. That person is probably trying to do every one a favor, In fact those rocks will probably go back into the trail in no time at all with the nasty el nino storms coming so i wouldn't worry about it. Most people don't know but but some features on trails are not self sustaining and and have to be re-worked or shaped to keep the trail a "trail" and sometimes this gets labeled as "Sanatizing" when this is not the intent of the maintainer at all. I think the intent is to keep the trails open, while keeping the public happy since ultimately the public owns the trails and land in OC Parks. And at Oaks the Public consists of a lot of Horseback riders and hikers, you gotta take them into consideration.

    If anyone doesn't like the changes being made to their trail they should try to become more involved in trail work days so that they can voice their opinions to the source, Instead of fighting the hard work of others. The Rangers need to hear what we want and like, and they need to know how big our community is and that we are the main users. Sorry for the small rant. Thanks for all the hard work and organizing MnMDan.
     
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  14. da big hills

    da big hills happy night trails

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    Those little cobble rocks are what fills in the rain grooves when they form in the trail. They are really important to a trail. These little rocks get knocked around until they land in the bottom. Come April riders will start knocking the side off of the ruts into the bottom. This fills in and the trail looks great by May. Trails without cobble get nasty ruts that carve deeper and deeper because the little rocks do not make little dams for sediment to form.
    Happy screed strewn trails.
     
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  15. MnMDan

    MnMDan Member

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    Next trail work day is up.
    Saturday, January 9th
    Looks like we'll have some moist soil to work with ahead of it. That should allow for some shaping to allow for the water to flow off of the trails and use those opportunities.

    The organizers are meeting with OC Parks to go over areas of concern and so that the work we do is acceptable...that way we don't have things show up that end up being taken out later.

    https://www.facebook.com/events/1680522395523388/
     
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  16. da big hills

    da big hills happy night trails

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    This is what I am waiting for: soil moisture, until then I will not do any new waterbars or stack the older ones. I will only dig out the old ones so they drain, and pile the loose stuff to the side so it is ready to stack. The moisture content is not there yet.
    Happy dry winter trails
     
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  17. MnMDan

    MnMDan Member

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    Bump...weather looks good to dry things out enough to get access and still keep the dirt moist enough to get some awesome work done!
     
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  18. portlypeddler

    portlypeddler Active Member

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    Thanks all for the hard work you did on the trails in Santiago Oaks, nice berms❤️It.
    Much appreciated, Steve
     
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  19. xtremeMTB

    xtremeMTB Member

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    Awesome job... much appreciated!

    Big rut

    [​IMG]

    Trail maint crew working away

    [​IMG]

    Very crappy zoomed in pic

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej Well-Known Member

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