New options at the top of 5-Oaks - Aliso?

Bah. I say motion activated machine guns!

 

Sorry, Chris. I think I was just hoping for one of Mark's highly coveted "thanks." It's not funny when it happens in real life, and I've ridden in areas like the Marin headlands where anti-mtb sabotage is (or was then) StandardOperatingProcedure.

I've got an email in to Ranger Ed, and have offered to walk the trails in question to look for solutions. Priorities at this point would be to fill the rut on Lynx and eliminate shortcuts on Meadows.

PS: For the record, I don't blame STRAVA for shortcutting because I've seen it done by trail users for decades. Its a natural tendency and a challenge to overcome. But if we get permission to do some work, I'd encourage non-shortcutting STRAVA riders to give us a hand because those other guys are messing up your times.

 

hey kioti, you know im in. I think ive rested enough since my last trail work

 

Ha, Ha, you're name was already on my list!

 

I have been the recipient of Mark's benevolence on the trail (water when I was out) but have never earned a coveted Mohammed/Hoover thanks. Dare to dream. There have only been 50 issued.

 

As a non-shortcutting Strava rider I'm ready to help, just say the word. But really I could care less about the strava times, I just like the awesome flow and fun of the Meadows switchbacks and would never think of riding straight down it or cutting any switches.

Curious though (maybe naive), how much damage do the switchback cuts actually do the real trail? I personally don't care that the shortcuts are there since I like the real trail better. But will the cuts eventually ruin the trail with big ditches from water running straight down the hill? I'm sure the switchbacks will always endure because to ride up it you almost have to use them, and as mentioned for most of us it's more fun going down the switchbacks than going straight down the cuts. And I would think hikers and runners will likely take any shortcut they can up and down if it's not too steep and treacherous. Really not trying to stir the pot, but what if you just let the cuts exist for those who want to use them?

 

I'm not sure why you insist on calling short cut lines "STRAVA LINES", but I find your prejudice for all Strava users as trail rebels a bit annoying. Although I'm not a die-hard Strava user, I do use it as a measuring tool to help myself improve and become a better rider. Strava has become very popular as our beloved sport grows every day. Aliso is a haven for beginner mountain bikers looking to get their adrenaline fix and many do not know the proper etiquette or are educated on the consequences of their actions. There is no need to stereotype anyone who intentionally or unintentionally damage a trail as "Strava" users. I haven't climbed Meadows in over a year, but when I did I noticed that the users of these "short cuts" are hikers and/or equestrians and not mountain bikers. So before you quickly judge us Strava users as annihilators of trails, I suggest you gather the facts.

 

I've got enough anecdotal evidence to warrant a little prejudice, but like all stereotypes, it does not apply to all. I followed two guys down Meadow who were trying to beat the STRAVA records and they took the lines that I'm complaining about. I have seen those lines become much more prominent over the past year than the previous five. Just trying to point out that the silliness of virtual/digital/internet chest-thumping often leads to crappy behavior on the trails. I'm glad there are responsible STRAVA users, just as I am glad there are people who do not drive while drunk.

I too can be painted with the prejudice of "crazy mountain biker" that many trail users ascribe to all mtb-ers. After all, I wasn't too far behind these STRAVA gods.

 

Those are great points. If the shortcuts are OK with the Ranger and aren't going to lead to eventual trail failure, maybe they stay in place. Most of my work in the County parks has been in Whiting, where multiple trails are discouraged.

I've offered to lend a hand to improve conditions that aren't otherwise being handled. My main concern is with safety (like sight lines and rut management), followed by design tweaks to improve flow, and trail integrity (such as the removal of P-lines). But I'm not a fan of sanitation, and support the inclusion of steep, rocky, rutted lines as well as low angled, fast and flowy trails. I haven't been to Aliso for a while, so I'll defer to local sentiments. I plan to ride the trails first, and if I think they're fine I might recommend doing nothing. Or maybe the Lynx rut stays, but just gets cleaned up.

There was a steep little trough on Cactus (in Whiting) that was really fun. It got removed before I started volunteering there, and I miss it every time I ride that trail-- I'd bring it back if I could. I used to trail run and loved running up and down steep game trails. So thanks for redefining "shortcuts," and I'll keep that in mind if I get to work over there. I'd hope you can help, too, because I like your point of view.

 

And how did you deduce that they were Strava users by following them? Since Brian Lopes is KOM on 5 oaks, I guess we can assume he was the one that created the P-line.....without prejudice, right?

 

But how do you feel about drunk strava users.....:beer:

 

I like and appreciate your verbiage Jon!

 

share mtb club will do trail work at Aliso Woods anytime. we will be at Santiago Oaks this Saturday doing trail work 8:30 to 12:00 am come out and give back to the trails we love to ride.

 

Uhhh, they told me at the top of the trail. They were currently in the top ten on Meadow and were looking to beat that. And I never said I was without prejudice - I said I have prejudice, and explained why with some facts, just like you asked. Props for you and the other responsible Strava users. There, can we stop this now?

 

You all give me more reasons to stay out of Aliso. The problem is I think more are getting tried of Aliso because I see much more traffic in Laguna Coast than I used to. Last time I went down Meadows it was on my rigid single speed and with all the breaking bumps it is not fun on a rigid bike anymore. KOM is hard on trails.

 

Those cuts are not ok with Ed who is the head ranger at Aliso. I know cause I've helped put in those wooden fences that block them only to get torn down time and time again.

Enough TALK!! If you guys really want to do some trail work, OMR and I have been ask by Jeff Bartel who used to be the liaison for SHARE to take over the responsibilities as liaison for SHARE at Aliso. We can schedule trailwork at Aliso soon. Seems like every time we do, it's the same people who show up and doing most of the work. :?:

 

Thats why I said "if theyre OK with the Ranger..," but thanks for clarifying. We were discussing the different needs of various user groups, along with trail sustainability, park policy, etc. I'm glad the points were made because it helps lead to a solution that meets the parks goals, as well as those of the trail users.

I've offered to help if help is needed. I've sent an email to Ranger Ed, as well as a couple to OMR. Not trying to step on any toes.. Lets put something together and maybe get some new people involved, including myself (at least at Aliso)!

 

Maybe so, but it is fun seeing all the old crew as I'm too time pressed to ride much but can almost always find a day for trail maintenance.
Count me in! We'll need 40 folks to haul the pipe and concrete so sign up now!

 

I'm in for trail work, if I'm in town.

 

yeah and I remember kioti mentioning something last time we worked on luge when I asked him if hikers ever got mad that we were using the luge all the time. He told me that he didnt see any hikers fixing the luge after the fires so he wouldnt see why they would be mad. As long as its mountain bikers fixing aliso, were good. Its good publicity