Lance: The Official Lance Armstrong Thread

Discussion in 'The Roadie Hangout' started by osmarandsara, Jul 30, 2008.

  1. Silver

    Silver New Member

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    Y'all are much too trusting. Public Strategies hasn't even bothered to send henchmen over here yet.

    Anyways, does anyone else love the fact that Amgen sponsors a bike race? The sheer chutzpah that takes from the UCI and US Cycling is breathtaking. It's like the Pope offering to host a NAMBLA convention at the Vatican, or the Mexican cartels doing anti-drug PSAs.
     
  2. ManInAShed

    ManInAShed New Member

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  3. EJ_92606

    EJ_92606 New Member

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    Quote: "I'm kind of glad the Government feels a need to investigate fraud that takes my tax dollars. This is a common misconception. The USPS has not used your tax dollars for decades now. Right now, they are a pseudo-corp. They are subject to the rules and regulations that congress wants to place on them, but they are ENTIRELY self-funded, like a normal business, from their fees.

    So no: postal workers, their overtime, silly worker's comp cases, etc.etc. dont cost you anything as a tax payer. It may cost you in increased stamp fees."


    Umm, not so sure about entirely self funded....well except for the billions they have borrowed from the US Treasury to fund their deficit ($15 billion). So not like a normal business at all, because normal businesses can't borrow from the treasury. The Post Office also has a $90 billion pension obligation. They will eventually need a bailout and yes it will be the taxpayer that pays.
     
  4. Captain Niceguy

    Captain Niceguy New Member

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    This whole "Lance is clean!" routine is romantic but ridiculous. To say that he schooled the climbing specialists in the mountains, AND the TT specialists in the TTs, and to say that he did so while THEY were doping (Um, they were...) and HE was clean, is absolutely absurd. Two plus two just isn't adding up to four for me in this case.

    Just my take on things...
     
  5. Hoosierdaddy

    Hoosierdaddy I Drink Therefore I Am.

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    Huh???

    Not trying to go off topic here but....

    You're saying the automotive industry isn't a "normal business"? Last I heard GM and Chrysler borrowed money, and paid it back! Ford was able to get through it without borrowing. I think there are some untruths in your post? :?:
     
  6. EJ_92606

    EJ_92606 New Member

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    haha, so you do agree that your point that they are 'entirely self funded' is entirely untrue?
     
  7. GeorgiaOfTheJungle

    GeorgiaOfTheJungle THE Penultimate Mtb'er

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    Ahahaha! I thought the same thing the first time I saw that team.

    **Note that I have a high amount of respect for some of their riders and believe that they are amazingly talented, but the others....
     
  8. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej Well-Known Member

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    I just don't care anymore.

    If he did, and got away with it......then he had a better doctor/drug maker than everyone else.....to make drugs that were not detectable.

    He is now retired.....won't really change anything if he is found to be guilty.....he has already has his glory and money.
     
  9. Hoosierdaddy

    Hoosierdaddy I Drink Therefore I Am.

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    WTF???? Again HUH????

    Really don't know what you're talking about? :?: Since post #285 is my first post in this thread! Maybe you should pay more attention to the stuff you read AND write? You must have me confused with someone else? Are YOU DOPING??? :lol: Was merely pointing out your blatant misuse of facts. The only point I was making was your distortion of the facts!

    Like mtnbikej pointed out, it's pretty much water under the bridge at this point! When you're on top, everyone will try anything to tarnish your achievements. Not saying he's innocent or guilty, but people will go to great lengths to question it.

    I come from an Auto racing background, we don't call it cheating, it's clever engineering! We would come up with ways to "bend" the rules, or do things that rules haven't been written for yet. The reason why most racers don't accuse the other teams or guys from cheating, is because they themselves are "cheating". That's the quickest way to bring attention to yourself.
     
  10. Silver

    Silver New Member

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    You know, if would be great if cycling culture had a word for that...

    Oh wait, they already do.
     
  11. jae2460

    jae2460 Active Member

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    Amen, Hallelujah, now can we close this thread? I'm so sick of hearing about Lance Armstrong. Every time I talk to a nonrider about the fact that I enjoy mountain biking and road biking, they have to bring up Lance Armstrong. Who cares? Why does that matter to me? It doesn't!

    Next time that happens, I'm going to ask them if the fact that Tiger Woods dopes means they shouldn't Golf anymore... Who cares?

    I enjoyed watching the guy race before he retired, but wish he would've kept to his original plan and stayed retired. Perhaps he does too, now. He definitely doesn't appear as classy as he originally did when he came back, had the classy wife and kids, etc. Then he dumps her for Sheryl Crow, then dumps her because she wanted to have kids and he didn't, then gets a younger woman pregnant...nice...

    But Lance is no worse than Tiger Woods or most of the other celebs out there...

    And cycling is probably much cleaner than Baseball and Football, maybe even Golf and Basketball...not to mention Olympic sports...

    But whether it is or isn't, or Lance did or didn't, I really couldn't give a $*&^%. I'd rather we focus on more important problems--there are a lot to choose from.
     
  12. ManInAShed

    ManInAShed New Member

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    So we should all be stopped from discussing the most famous cyclist in the world because you're tired of hearing about him?

    You could just decide not to read threads with "Lance Armstrong" in the title.
     
  13. EJ_92606

    EJ_92606 New Member

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    I think you need to re-read the thread. I was replying to post #270 by MojoCP wherein he stated that the post office was entirely self funded. You might feel a little stupid for accusing me of being on drugs because YOU mis-read the thread, but don't worry about it. ;-)
     
  14. GeorgiaOfTheJungle

    GeorgiaOfTheJungle THE Penultimate Mtb'er

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    As a parent who loves her daughter who loves to ride, I am concerned because this reaches out to our youth in many ways. Not only as a role model for winning by doping, but also because of stories like these:

    Greg Strock and the US National Team (coached by Carmichael and settled out of court, official records sealed): http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/04/10/60II/main284958.shtml
    http://velonews.competitor.com/2006/04/news/six-years-later-strock-case-comes-to-court_9763
    Canadian junior admits to doping: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2007/09/20/jeanson-doping.html
    Pro-rider started doping after an injury when he was 17: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/7...ix-winner-Fabien-Taillefer-admits-doping.aspx

    We cannot create a culture of acceptance, no matter how many wins or who it is.

    There ARE physiological repercussions to doping. These cyclists starting using products when they were 16-17. Long term effects of doping can be seen with the German team (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2005/nov/01/athletics.gdnsport3). I do not want my child, or anyone elses for that matter, to have to face the effects of doping for a win.

    Also, I want to watch the human struggle as they climb to the highest peak of the toughest climb.

    If I wanted to watch how easy and high you can get from science, I'd watch the space shuttle launch instead of the Tours.

    Cycling should be about you and the bike, NOT you, the docs, medical technology, cheating skills, bribery, urine labs, secret testing, borrowing blood, hidden engines, and the bike.
     
  15. obie

    obie New Member

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    Maybe we should move away from Lance and throw some garbage on Chris Carmichael. Chris the 'Trainer' never comes up in these exposes but.....WTF? Has he ever been quoted on where he stands on doping? Never knew anything etc, etc?

    He, and others, have 'ridden' Lance's wheel to fortunes and fame. Carmichael would have you believe, unlike Tyler said on '60 Minutes', that it's just training, diet and perserverance. Not training, diet, doping and sticking to the program.

    I did use the Lance/Carmichael book for a few years too. Maybe he should do a revised edition? :)
     
  16. jae2460

    jae2460 Active Member

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    Point taken. No, you shouldn't be stopped. You should freely choose to do something better with your time than wonder whether or not a retired cyclist doped when he won, when it's obvious that he most certainly did and that nearly every rider he was competing against did as well and had done so for decades in one form or another. Even the great Eddy Merckxx doped. Lance's biggest problem is he's lied about it, but so did his predecessors.

    I think Contador's guilt or innocence is MUCH more relevant to cycling than Lance Armstrong. And the convenient delay in his hearing and the farce that is becoming.
     
  17. whybother

    whybother New Member

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    it is professional sports though. no changing that. where there is money to be made (and BIG money at that) people will do everything in their power (legal or not).

    had a discussion with a non-cyclist, non-fan, over the weekend. he was a vice cop in LA and has seen the effects on society of drugs (not PED's). his initial argument is one that i have used, "it is a spectacle, legalize the PED's and lets see what they do!" after asking him if it was his kid, he said he didn't like the idea... it is not an easy thing.

    i think that Landis wasn't far off the mark. i think that doping is organized, that it isn't an individual thing by a rogue athlete. it is portrayed to the public in this fashion and i think that is bull shite. i think that the "powers that be" ruin one guy at a time while they either let others slip, or simply ignore them. too much money is made way up the ladder and the only way to stop it might be to destroy the current regime... not likely to happen.

    i don't think that doping in amateur cycling matters. who cares where you place. what matters is that you go out and do your best. it is likely that i have raced against someone that takes a WADA banned substance (looking at the recent articles and busts), if they beat me so be it. i know i am clean and it is about challenging myself, not taking home a bowling trophy. i win because i am not a lard ass anymore!

    big difference between AM and truly PRO... my wife is not truly PRO (classified as Elite) and if not doing drugs keeps her from being PRO then so be it.
     
  18. Silver

    Silver New Member

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    Do yourself and your daughter a favor, and read "Rough Ride" by Paul Kimmage.
     
  19. merc13000

    merc13000 Member

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    I totally agree. Haters always look at the top cyclists, body builders and other sportsmen, wave a dismissing hand and say "ahh they just doped". Even with the dope they spent more hours in the gym than you, prepared more, focused more, and worked harder than everyone else to get there.

    I am not condoning doping at all, and have ever touched a hard drug of any kind in my life. I'm just sick of people having the "if I shot up I'd be that fast too" attitude. No, you still wouldn't be nearly as fast as Lance if you doped...
     
  20. dirtmistress

    dirtmistress AKA Roadiemistress

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    I always said that if Lance didn't dope, he'd have won his Tours by 5 minutes instead of 7!
     

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