Intersting News Regarding the Global Warming Debate

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by dgaspar, Nov 21, 2009.

  1. socal_rider

    socal_rider Member

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    ^ what rojomas said
     
  2. mxvet

    mxvet New Member

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    :clap::clap::clap::clap: props to that Lovelock chap for admitting that he was "wrong" or at least exaggerating the hype...long live internal combustion!
     
  3. dstepper

    dstepper (R.I.P.) Over the hill

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    After the Russians are coming build a bomb shelter in your backyard, beware of the communists, a ice age is coming, we are all going to die from environmental pollution, acid rain is killing all our forests, we will all being wearing gas masks because of smog, the Aids epidemic is unstoppable you may be next, the millennium bug will shut down everything, the drug war...I could go on and on. Makes it hard to believe anything they tell us. We ned to not react to the scare tactics they use to control us and enrich themselves.
     
  4. fatguy1

    fatguy1 Active Member

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    Don't forget the zombies are coming too....Lmao
     
  5. Abui

    Abui Active Member

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    Global Warming is yesterday's scare. The latest scheme to tax and control is "Sustainable Development". http://www.uncsd2012.org/
     
  6. rojomas

    rojomas A.K.A The Oxx

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    Ahh... who cares? We'll all be dead on 12/21/12 anyways. Plus, that's the day the anti-Christ (Snookie's baby) is due.
     
  7. ManInAShed

    ManInAShed New Member

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    Woa woa woa, Abui's climate change denying/global independent scientist conspiracy I get, but denying Zombies? Sir you go too far! I have my Z-Day survival plan set and ready to implement at a moments notice. We'll see who laughs last!
     
  8. rojomas

    rojomas A.K.A The Oxx

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  9. Abui

    Abui Active Member

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    I prefer rational scientist to denier. This long thread started with the Climategate emails which showed the lack of integrity in Mann et al. On that basis alone one suspects the "science" in climate science. Subsequent facts have shown the hockey stick was a fraud. Contrast the CRU with the standards of Feynman - http://www.lhup.edu/~DSIMANEK/cargocul.htm

    A discussion of the word denier.
    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/06/20/dr-paul-bain-responds-to-critics-of-use-of-denier-term/
     
  10. chupacabra

    chupacabra New Member

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    So what's being said here is that when Lovelock or any other scientist "hyped" global climate change, they were idiots. Now that he has revised his position on the consequences, he's somehow much smarter than before. So if someone believe what you believe he is smart, if not they are brainwashed.

    Amazing how that works.
     
  11. surftime

    surftime New Member

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    Has nothing to do with Lovelock being smarter now or anything about switching sides

    Its the fact that they lied and made up fake science, mainly for political reasons. And as Dstepper says above, its one lie to the next to the next from the science community. And my degree and background is in Microbiology and Chemistry - honestly i only believe half the stuff i read - including all the nutritional science that is out right now.


     
  12. ManInAShed

    ManInAShed New Member

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    Don't you have a birth certificate to proofread?
     
  13. dirtvert

    dirtvert Whine on!

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  14. dirtvert

    dirtvert Whine on!

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    Y'all are too funny. One old codger (92) backs away a bit from his original assertions, and that's supposed to disprove all we know about climate change? Oh, and he's hyping a new book. Gotcha. You flat-earthers might want to dig a little deeper:

    By Ian Johnston, msnbc.com
    James Lovelock, the maverick scientist who became a guru to the environmental movement with his “Gaia” theory of the Earth as a single organism, has admitted to being “alarmist” about climate change and says other environmental commentators, such as Al Gore, were too.
    Lovelock, 92, is writing a new book in which he will say climate change is still happening, but not as quickly as he once feared.
    He previously painted some of the direst visions of the effects of climate change. In 2006, in an article in the U.K.’s Independent newspaper, he wrote that “before this century is over billions of us will die and the few breeding pairs of people that survive will be in the Arctic where the climate remains tolerable.”
    However, the professor admitted in a telephone interview with msnbc.com that he now thinks he had been “extrapolating too far."
    The new book, due to be published next year, will be the third in a trilogy, following his earlier works, “Revenge of Gaia: Why the Earth Is Fighting Back – and How We Can Still Save Humanity,” and “The Vanishing Face of Gaia: A Final Warning: Enjoy It While You Can.”
    The new book will discuss how humanity can change the way it acts in order to help regulate the Earth’s natural systems, performing a role similar to the harmonious one played by plants when they absorb carbon dioxide and produce oxygen.
    Climate's 'usual tricks'
    It will also reflect his new opinion that global warming has not occurred as he had expected.

    “The problem is we don’t know what the climate is doing. We thought we knew 20 years ago. That led to some alarmist books – mine included – because it looked clear-cut, but it hasn’t happened,” Lovelock said.
    “The climate is doing its usual tricks. There’s nothing much really happening yet. We were supposed to be halfway toward a frying world now,” he said.
    “The world has not warmed up very much since the millennium. Twelve years is a reasonable time… it (the temperature) has stayed almost constant, whereas it should have been rising -- carbon dioxide is rising, no question about that,” he added.
    He pointed to Gore’s “An Inconvenient Truth” and Tim Flannery’s “The Weather Makers” as other examples of “alarmist” forecasts of the future.
    In 2007, Time magazine named Lovelock as one of 13 leaders and visionaries in an article on “Heroes of the Environment,” which also included Gore, Mikhail Gorbachev and Robert Redford.
    “Jim Lovelock has no university, no research institute, no students. His almost unparalleled influence in environmental science is based instead on a particular way of seeing things,” Oliver Morton, of the journal Nature wrote in Time. “Humble, stubborn, charming, visionary, proud and generous, his ideas about Gaia have started a change in the conception of biology that may serve as a vital complement to the revolution that brought us the structures of DNA and proteins and the genetic code.”
    NYT: Most tie extreme weather to global warming, poll finds
    Lovelock also won the U.K.’s Geological Society’s Wollaston Medal in 2006. In a posting on its website, the society said it was “rare to be able to say that the recipient has opened up a whole new field of Earth science study” – referring to the Gaia theory of the planet as single complex system.
    However Lovelock, who works alone at his home in Devon, England, has fallen out with the green movement in the past, particularly after saying countries should build nuclear power stations to help reduce the greenhouse gas emissions caused by coal and oil.
    'Perfect recipe' for wildfires as season starts early
    Asked if he was now a climate skeptic, Lovelock told msnbc.com: “It depends what you mean by a skeptic. I’m not a denier.”
    He said human-caused carbon dioxide emissions were driving an increase in the global temperature, but added that the effect of the oceans was not well enough understood and could have a key role.
    “It (the sea) could make all the difference between a hot age and an ice age,” he said.
    He said he still thought that climate change was happening, but that its effects would be felt farther in the future than he previously thought.
    “We will have global warming, but it’s been deferred a bit,” Lovelock said.
    'I made a mistake'
    As “an independent and a loner,” he said he did not mind saying “All right, I made a mistake.” He claimed a university or government scientist might fear an admission of a mistake would lead to the loss of funding.

    Lovelock -- who has previously worked with NASA and discovered the presence of harmful chemicals (CFCs) in the atmosphere but not their effect on the ozone layer -- stressed that humanity should still “do our best to cut back on fossil fuel burning” and try to adapt to the coming changes.
    Peter Stott, head of climate monitoring and attribution at the U.K.’s respected Met Office Hadley Centre, agreed Lovelock had been too alarmist with claims about people having to live in the Arctic by 2100.
    And he also agreed with Lovelock that the rate of warming in recent years had been less than expected by the climate models.
    However, Stott said this was a short-term trend that could be within the natural range of variation and it would need to continue for another 10 years or so before it could be considered evidence that something was missing from climate models.
    US sees warmest March, and first quarter, on record
    Stott said temperature records and other observations were “broadly speaking continuing to pan out” with what was expected.
    He said there did need to be greater understanding of the effect of the oceans on the climate and added that air particles caused by pollution – which cool the Earth by reflecting the sun’s heat -- from rapidly developing countries like China could be having an effect.
    On Lovelock, Stott said he had “a lot of respect” for him, saying “he’s had a lot of good ideas and interesting thoughts.”
    “I like the fact he’s provocative and provokes people to think about these things,” Stott said.
    Keya Chatterjee, international climate policy director of environmental campaign group WWF-US, said in a statement that it was "hard not to get overwhelmed and be defeatist" about the challenges facing the planet, but suggested alarmist talk did not help persuade people to act to reduce climate change.
    "While the problem is becoming increasingly urgent, we’ve found that focusing on the most dire predictions does not resonate with the public, governments, or business. People tend to shut off when a problem does not seem solvable," she said.
    "And that’s not the case with climate change because we can still avoid its worst impacts. We know that we already have all of the technologies needed to slow climate change down. We only lack the political will to go up against vested interests," she added.
    States where green jobs are going gangbusters
    According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the leading body on the subject, the world’s average temperature has risen by about 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit since 1900. By 2100, it predicts it will rise by another 2 to 11.5 degrees, depending upon the levels of greenhouse gases emitted.
    Asked to give its latest position on climate change, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said in a statement that observations collected by satellites, sensors on land, in the air and seas “continue to show that the average global surface temperature is rising.”
    The statementsaid “the impacts of a changing climate” were already being felt around the globe, with “more frequent extreme weather events of certain types (heat waves, heavy rain events); changes in precipitation patterns … longer growing seasons; shifts in the ranges of plant and animal species; sea level rise; and decreases in snow, glacier and Arctic sea ice coverage.”
    NOAA reports its data in monthly U.S. and global climate reports and annual State of the Climate reports.
    Its annual climate summary for 2011 said that the combined land and ocean surface temperature for the world was 0.92 degrees above the 20th century average of 57.0 degrees, making it the 35th consecutive year since 1976 that the yearly global temperature was above average.
    “All 11 years of the 21st century so far (2001-2011) rank among the 13 warmest in the 132-year period of record. Only one year during the 20th century, 1998, was warmer than 2011,” it said.
    In the interview, Lovelock said he would not take back a word of his seminal work “Gaia: A New Look at Life on Earth,” published in 1979.
    But of “Revenge of Gaia,” published in 2006, he said he had gone too far in describing what the warming Earth would see over the next century.
    “I would be a little more cautious -- but then that would have spoilt the book,” he quipped.

    And there's this:
    • [​IMG]Buildings are seen near the ocean …
    • [​IMG]The New York City skyline is shown …
    The sea level on a stretch of the US Atlantic coast that features the cities of New York, Norfolk and Boston is rising up to four times faster than the global average, a report said Sunday.
    This increases the flood risk for one of the world's most densely-populated coastal areas and threatens wetland habitats, said a study reported in the journal Nature Climate Change.
    Since about 1990, the sea level along the 1,000-kilometre (620-mile) "hotspot" zone has risen by two to 3.7 millimetres (0.08 to 0.15 inches) per year.
    The global rise over the same period was between 0.6 and one millimetre per year, said the study by the US Geological Survey (USGS).
    If global temperatures continue to rise, the sea level on this portion of the coast by 2100 could rise up to 30 centimetres over and above the one-metre global surge projected by scientists, it added.
    The localised acceleration is thought to be caused by a disruption of Atlantic current circulation.
    "As fresh water from the melting of the Greenland Ice Sheet enters the ocean, it disrupts this circulation, causing the currents to slow down," USGS research oceanographer and study co-author Kara Doran explained.
    "When the Gulf Stream current weakens, sea levels rise along the coast and the greatest amount of rise happens north of where the Gulf Stream leaves the coast (near Cape Hatteras)."
    The hotspot stretches from Cape Hatteras, Northern Carolina to north of Boston, Massachusetts and also includes other big cities like Philadelphia and Baltimore.
    "Extreme water levels that happen during winter or tropical storms, perhaps once or twice a year, may happen more frequently as sea level rise is added to storm surge," Doran told AFP.
    "Scientists predict that this will lead to increased beach erosion and more frequent coastal flooding."
    Another study has shown a one-metre sea level rise to increase New York's severe flooding risk from one incident every century to one every three years.
    The USGS report was based on actual tide level measurements, said Doran. Other studies have shown a similar hotspot using climate models.
    In a 2007 assessment report, the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change said global warming would cause the sea level to rise by up to 59 centimetres by century's end.
    Even this relatively modest projection would render several island nations unlivable and wreak havoc in low-lying deltas home to hundreds of millions.
    But reports since then have said that melting Arctic ice plays a greater role in sea level rise than previously suspected, and most climate change scientists now project the ocean will rise roughly a metre by century's end.
    Climate warming causes sea levels to rise by melting land-ice and through the thermal expansion of water.
    In a separate study in Nature Climate Change, European scientists said a 1.5-degree-Celsius rise in global temperatures would see sea levels peak at about 1.5 metres above 2000 levels.
    But warming of two degrees would result in sea levels reaching 2.7 metres -- nearly double.
    The UN is targeting a 2 C (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) limit on warming from pre-industrial levels for manageable climate change.
    "Due to the long time it takes for the world's ice and water masses to react to global warming, our emissions today determine sea levels for centuries to come," said lead author Michiel Schaeffer of Wageningen University in the Netherlands.


    Yeah, scientists have pretty much just been on a lucky streak the last 500 years in everything from physics, chemistry, geology, and astronomy to biology, medicine, and genetics. Wudda they know... And the fact that there have been 4 named storms in the Atlantic before July 1 for the first time is probably just a coincidence!

    :beer:

    And, since this issue has become the ecological equivalent to abortion, I'm done with it. Let's ride bikes.
     
  15. surftime

    surftime New Member

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    As I stated above i have spent pretty much all my youth and college years in science - so not a flat earther..
    Most people are pissed about this not because the guy backs away from his assertions – its due to the purposeful lies leading up to all of this. That was a huge story when it broke even if most people don’t remember it now this many years later.

    What I am saying is that there is so much hyperbole in science now. Everything has to be so dramatic, each new study is sooo important. The message is to get published, get published, get published. So I am just saying that I take it slow and wait for these things to play out. Which really is an underlying principle of the scientific principle (repeatable results (without faking the data)).

    The earth might be warming but I just dont subscribe to the gloom and doom on the news and in the lame science magazines that I used to subscribe to. Just like at the time I knew all the AID’s epidemic (in the USA***) was waaaaay overblown not to mention a complete and outright lie as to how easy it is to catch depending on your “persuasion” or “preference”.
     
  16. uhhohh

    uhhohh Member

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    Stay thirsty my friends…
     
  17. chupacabra

    chupacabra New Member

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    And my degree is in Biology and Chemistry. It doesn't matter, but.....


    Riddle me this.
    We know it is getting warmer.
    We know we are releasing bunches of CO2
    We know CO2 abosorbs energy.

    Sure there are natural cycles. But the dots are there to connect.
     
  18. bing!

    bing! Active Member

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    there is a big difference between correlation and causation.
     
  19. Ladd Jasper

    Ladd Jasper Full speed, half blind

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    Oh hooray, you all took the bait. Hopefully this round of super meaningful back-and-forth results in at least one person changing their position...for a grand total of one.
     
  20. bing!

    bing! Active Member

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    sciences most spectacular conclusions have been forged in the furnace of questioning. discussion stimulates the mind. silence is the solace of censors.
     

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