El Prieto at risk!/Station Fire (merged threads)

Is this a post fire photo? If so, then the immediate area fared much better then I was suspecting. Not bad at all!

 

Oops... stupid post edit deleted link....

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10843861&postcount=9023

Here's his caption...

Newcombs still standing mother ****er!
As I was head further and further up the crest toward Newcombs it looked and smelled like the fire had been there much more recently but then I got there and it was still standing however a bit ashy. A fire had gotten very close just across the street but it made it.
​

 

"Newcombs still standing mutha-focker" is right. That's fantastic to see! Thx, big Al!

 

Now reporting 91% containment, and expected full containment on the 19th. This weekend, as reported on inciweb an hour ago.

 

Some photos of where the fire started:
http://laist.com/2009/09/15/photos_a_look_at_a_crime_scene_wher.php?gallery0Pic=1#gallery

 

I was on pins and needles wondering about Newcomb's. The first chance I get I'm gonna go back up there for some grub!

 

News of the investigation of the low life sicko that started this is understandably very limited. Anyone know of the status of the investigation?

 

I never even knew that place existed. I'm with you. Maybe we can have an STR San Gabes Possy lunch there REAL soon!!!

 

The latest news says that the date of containment has been pushed back to this coming Tuesday. The fire is 93% contained.

 

The youtube video - the thing that stands out to me is the guardrails sitting on the ground in place, just where their wood supports burned out from underneath them.

Unreal....

 

Update: 94% containment; Santa Ana winds expected.

Incident Overview

Image options: [ Enlarge ] [ Full Size ]

The Red Flag Warning has been extended through Thursday evening for winds gusting to 35 mph and a prolonged period of relatively low humidity. Santa Ana winds are predicted for late tonight. Santa Ana winds are dry and warm (often hot) winds in the Southern California area that blow in from the desert. Today will be hot and dry with temperatures in the low 100s.


Due to this anticipated increase in temperatures, wind, and a decrease in humidity over the next few days the full containment date has been pushed back to Thursday. Additional aircraft began an aerial assault on Saturday which will continue through the week as needed. The intent is to extinguish remaining interior hotspots and reduce the risk of embers igniting additional fuels during the anticipated hot, dry and windy weather. These hotspots are located in steep and rugged terrain, which is inaccessible by ground crews. 250,000 gallons of water and over 100,000 were dropped on the fire yesterday pretreating containment lines and working hot spots.

 

With temps in the triple digits and winds picking up I hope nothing bad happens again. I just saw on the news that Mt Wilson is getting a fresh coating of fire retardant.

 

Another view. From a private pilot.

 

Station Fire media coverage.

Posted without permission from Los Angeles times.com
Written by Paul Pringle 10/1/09

The U.S. Forest Service has launched an internal inquiry into the agency's attack on the deadly Station fire, an operation that was scaled back the night before the blaze began to burn out of control.

"With the significant loss of life, and impacts to the local community, we must determine the effectiveness of our efforts," Forest Service Chief Thomas Tidwell said in a written statement Wednesday. Tidwell said he would ask other agencies to participate in the review.

But the Forest Service has declined to release detailed information about its response to the suspected arson fire, citing in part an ongoing homicide investigation by the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department into the deaths of two firefighters whose truck fell off a mountain road. Sheriff's spokesman Steve Whitmore said the department sent a letter Wednesday to fire officials asking that the material be withheld until detectives review it.

Neither Forest Service officials nor Whitmore would explain how the release of information on the deployment of firefighters and equipment might jeopardize the investigation. The firefighters were killed on the blaze's fifth day.

The Times reported this week that the Forest Service considered the fire nearly contained at the end of the first day, and thus prepared to go into mop-up mode the next morning with fewer ground crews and water-dropping helicopters, according to documents and interviews. After the story appeared, fire victims demanded an investigation.

The blaze, which broke out Aug. 26, destroyed about 90 homes and other buildings and blackened more than 160,000 acres of the Angeles National Forest. It is the largest fire in the county's recorded history.

Big Tujunga Canyon residents, many of whom lost homes to the fire, said they welcomed the Forest Service inquiry, but were skeptical that it would be as rigorous as an independent probe.

"Will we get the truth? I don't know," said Cindy Marie Pain, whose Stonyvale Road house burned down. She said she believed the Forest Service was withholding information on its tactics because "they look bad enough already."

Residents have accused the Los Angeles County Fire Department of not doing enough to keep the flames from the canyon community after the blaze spread from its starting point above La Cañada Flintridge. County officials have said the department did all it could without risking the lives of firefighters.

Meanwhile, Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Glendale), whose district borders the Angeles National Forest, said the Forest Service failed to address concerns that he and five other local members of Congress raised more than two years ago about the agency's firefighting capabilities.

In an August 2007 letter, the lawmakers cited reports of a "severe shortage of qualified supervisors" in the forest and complaints that many firefighters had quit because of low pay and management that "has not been responsive."

"We'll look at what the Forest Service investigation reveals and we'll see if a broader investigation needs to be done," Schiff said Wednesday. "It seems to me that this is a situation where you would want maximum transparency."

The Times reported that in the evening of the fire's first day, the Forest Service estimated that the blaze would be controlled by the following afternoon, with no loss of structures and minimal harm to the natural treasures of the San Gabriel Mountains. Overnight, as the 15-acre fire grew, the Forest Service realized its mistake and began to summon more equipment and crews.

On that fateful second day, the county department lent the Forest Service a heli-tanker but denied its request for another smaller chopper, according to documents and interviews.

Chief Deputy John Tripp, the department's No. 2 official, said he made that decision because he did not believe the fire was endangering neighborhoods, and because the county must keep some helicopters for other emergencies.

[email protected]
Copyright © 2009, The Los Angeles Times

 

I would stick this thread in the Pub as it is more a governmental/political deal. Better discussed over a beer or a few.

There are a few quotes I could have pulled but used that one.

People make mistakes and when dealing with something as unpredictable as fire I am surprised it does not happen more often even with the knowledge and technology we have these days. That's what Home Owners Insurance is for. If you want to live in a fire pron area be it started by an arson or nature, suck it up, it is something that should be prepared for mentally, emotionally(hard to do sometimes) and physically. Yes it sucks to loose everything and people will get angry but the Fire Dept does their best so they should not be blamed.

So when the big one hits and the rescuers are sent to one area and not another ... I'm just sayin' (I forget who that annoys )

 

Incident Information -- As of 09/29/2009

From http://www.fire.lacounty.gov/

• Although the Station Fire is at 98% containment, residents should be aware that fire season is not over. Many of the buildings impacted by the fire are located in the Wildland Urban Interface (WUI) where there is a continuous threat from natural disasters. "The WUI is where homes meet the forest or any large area with lots of trees, plants or grasses. In these areas, fire can move fast from trees and grass to houses and buildings."
• Containment: 98%
• Acres: 160,557 acres at this time.
• Cause: Arson and is now a homicide investigation. Contact LA County Sheriff's Department at (323) 573-2387 with questions
• A variety of state, local agencies and programs are available to help homeowners. These include FEMA, Los Angeles County Department of Public Works. Residents who have not yet met with a flood-control engineer but would like to schedule a visit may call (800) 214-4020 and review the LA County DPW's "Homeowner's Guide for Flood, Debris and Erosion Control".

Printable Map, 9/13/2009
Station IC in a larger map​

Printable Map, 9/13/2009

Fire Progression Map. --- Enlarge​

Angeles National Forest Closure:
An area closure of the southern portion of the Angeles National Forest is in effect until it is determined that it is safe to reopen forest areas. For additional information on the closure, and a map go to www.fs.fed.us/r5/angeles/ or call 626-821-6700

 

Take a look at this closure order that Jody Noiron, Angeles National Forest Supervisor signed yesterday. The order becomes effective today and it runs through September 2010. It does not sound too promising as far as getting back up to MTB in the San Gabes is concerned.

Here are the referenced docs in the closure order. Exhibit A and Exhibit B.

 

Thanks for the info. I hope Sept. 2010 is just the worst case scenario.
I heard on a KFWB traffic report that the Angeles Forest Hwy may open as early as mid-November 2009. I wonder how they will limit access if it does?

 

I too hope September 2010 is a worst case scenario.

As far as access goes, I have been wondering the same thing. I had heard they were going to be opening Chantry and the Toll Road next week, but apparently not.

 

Station Fire. Everyone has the answers!!

Here's a thought. Maybe the expert are experts. Maybe the blamers and flamers (no pun intended) don't know all the information used in decision making.

It seems like any time something doesn't work out well anytime there is a tragedy, the first thing people want to do is blame someone.

1. "this fire wouldn't have burned so fiercely if they had let other fires burn"
2. "they should have put this fire out right away"
3. "they shouldn't have pulled resources so soon"

Its like a High School football game. After a play doesn't work, every shouts for the something different. Like its was so obvious what the right call would be and the coach is an idiot. Hind site is 20/20. Of course the FS wishes they would have allocated more resources right away on Station fire. That doesn't mean they are incompetent, it means there was a decision made based upon a lot of information that we don't see; budget, other fires, etc.

People are saying they should have let previous fires burn to reduce the undergrowth. What if those fires would have burned out of control and burned down houses.

I don't think the answers are as easy as everyone tries to make them out to be.

Rant over.


Every one wants to be an arm-chair quarter back and I'm tired of it.