Posting in the pub since it's not exactly bike/ride related... I've been thinking about buying a small place in Big Bear lake and renting it out as a vacation rental. My wife and I don't ski or snowboard, so I would have no conflicts during the "peak" seasons. What are your opinions about Big Bear as both a mountain biking and ski/snowboarding destination? I've gone once to mountain bike the snow summit trails. I thought it was okay, but I didn't really get a chance to explore. Would you think there's a lot of cabin rentals for mountain bikers during the summer? How much would you pay per/night to beat this socal heat and get in a biking weekend?
I have a vacation rental and am also starting up a business in a related area - so i know the industry pretty good. What is the goal of the purchase? As an investment talk to locals, but my guess is it will be hard to make enough to break even up in BB. But I could be wrong. All I am saying is - renting you own place up there 5 times a year is way cheaper than loosing money on a VR all year long. Best bet is to talk to local relaters
I've been doing some analysis on income properties/vacation rentals, and I keep coming to the same conclusion that I need to look outside California. I like the idea of something somewhat local where I could be around for any major issues, I'm not sure how the market is year round. I do plan on heading up there in a few weekends to do some research, but wanted to see if my mountain biking brethren see it as a good enough destination to make a weekend of it. It's no Moab or Whistler, but it's definitely more accessible.
I use VRBO to rent houses for our MTB roads trips. Normally houses in Sedona, Flagstaff and Lake Tahoe. Last year I did rent a house in Big Bear and in looking at houses in Big Bear I was surprised on how cheap and how many. I rented a 4 bedroom Lodge for $99 a night...note that was during the summer and I am sure things are different on a good snow year. But I would want yearly income not seasonal. Use the calendar feature in VRBO and you will see how often houses are being rented.
In addition to what Dean said above, I have also rented houses up there.. we have done summer and winter. Winter is a different story and is obviously more expensive. We rented a 3BDR place with a decent proximity to SS and a few blocks from the marina, and had a hot tub, pool table, flat screens, WiFi, etc.. it was a nicer place, not one of the very old run down rentals I've seen, but it was in the range of 400 per night during ski season. The same exact place we rented for a couple of nights during September (just after Labor Day) for biking was 200 per night. We used Big Bear Vacations both times we rented that specific house..
Big Bear has been hit hard by the recession and the prolonged drought. It's primarily a destination during the winter, but without any significant snowfall, tourism is dismal and people will trek up to Mammoth instead. Top that off with lack luster restaurants and other ammenities, there really isn't much else except hiking, fishing, boating, and biking (sounds like a lot, but most people are there for the skiing). So if you are seeking an investment proeprty, you probably won't find it in Big Bear. But, if you are seeking a vacation house, and you LOVE LOVE LOVE Big Bear, then you may be able to make a few bucks when it's not occupied by you. Just don't expect the rental income to support the PITI. As you mentioned, Snow Summit is cool, but it's not really a biking destination like Whistler, Northstar, or Mammoth, so you might get a bit bored of the lift assisted runs after a while. But there is some really good riding in the area other than SS (i.e. SART). My $0.02
Thanks for all the replies. I was looking to just break even on PITI + maintenance, but it doesn't seem like it's likely. It makes sense that the drought is killing the area during the peak snow seasons. Dean - thanks for the tip on the VRBO calendar. This is really, really helpful. Just about every property is completely vacant through the end of the winter. Doesn't look good for the area...
What Zion said +1 Gleaned from 10+ friends, family and Big Bear neighbors who've tried the rental route. The folks who contract with a local rental agency seem happiest. The local agency will normally do better screening and react to problems much quicker. The problems for you would run the gamut from "heater won't light" to "we're snowed in on the driveway". The city has very strict rental guidelines. You may choose to run the property yourself but all it takes is one grumpy neighbor to turn you in. The most common complaint among neighbors (besides the normal - its too loud) is too many vehicles. All of the local agencies list Occupancy and # of Vehicles on the rental signs. It is enforced. A beautiful, six-room home (no one would call it a cabin) across from my in-laws was converted to a rental with an agency last winter. During the weekend of the earthquake earlier this summer the group renting the home had eight cars crammed into the driveway which was designed for four. Not sure who bitched but after a visit from the agency four cars were immediately removed. Seems that if it happens again, the agency or you is fined (?) and the renter will forfeit the deposit. Until you own a place up there, it's hard to imagine how quickly a home deteriorates with a few hard winters. A lot of the rentals really look crappy. Paint doesn't last very long; you'll want to refinish your deck every other year minimum; hope you have some sort of a mud room or all of those skiers will just pile there wet crap on your carpet. Plus there is the wonderful "Whose is going to turn off the water and drain the pipes" and the "I hope they got rid of the fireplace ashes" winter issues. One uncle rented his cabin to the same family for five or six winters. They were excellent renters and were capable of turning off all utilities. Except for their last rental. Seems they forgot to turn off the furnace. My uncle was at the River pretending to be a snowbird and didn't have any way to check on them - until he got his gas bill for the furnace running every day & night for two, cold winter months. My father in-law complains every year how his upkeep in Big Bear is at least three times what he needed for their home in Whittier. The people who seem the most satisfied with the rental option work with local agencies AND are not needing a rental income to afford the cabin. The least happy are the ones who choose to rent a few times a year to help out with cost and then use the cabin personally with family. No one will ever take care of the cabin like you would. I know a lot of owners keep a private storage area for personal clothes, skis, etc. Unfortunately, I know a lot of owners who come back to the cabin and find the locked closet kicked in or the door to the garage pried open and ransacked. I wish you all the luck. I need a new place for my next party.
This was a good thread to read. Thanks to everyone who posted their thoughts. I own 2 rental properties (not vacation rentals) and my plan is to someday sell one and buy a vacation property. I've kept my eye on a number of places including Big Bear. I always come to the conclusion that if I'm interested in getting much income at all, then Big Bear isn't the place. It is still appealing though since it's so close, but I think when the time comes for me to buy, it'll most likely be someplace where I can get a better return, even if I use it less. Southern Utah usually ends up at the top of my list. Places are not expensive, there's good potential for rental income, and it's close enough for me to use on a 3 day weekend. Plus, when I've looked on VRBO, there are certain areas that are booked almost every day of the month.
My family and inlaws rent a house/cabin right near bear mountain 2 weekends each winter. $3500 for two nights. If you have big enough place, and a good location, you can do well. 6 bedroom, with parking for 6 vehicles.
If I was looking for vacation rental property I would head straight to Sedona. There are deals there now but it is changing fast. Summer brings the Grand Canyon crowd and winter brings the snow birds. Mountains bikers all the time except middle of summer. We struggle to find a place in Sedona to rent at X-Mas time.
prop values are doing well up here. my place i bought for 99k in 2011 is already at 185k. with mammoths investment group buying both ski resorts things are set to go even higher. there is literally tons of new businesses opening. 5 new restaurants this summer alone. this town is seeing a nice economic boom currently.
I heard from the guys at SS a couple of weeks ago the guys from Mammoth are buying both resorts, but it wasn't publicized yet. Is it true? I haven't read anything about it.
Two of my buddies and I each bought places up there for our families in the last year, and so far so good. We were looking for the easy "quick escape" from OC, and BB provides it. From OC, we each pack a duffle after work Fri and head up after traffic slows, we're there by 10PM and the weekend begins. I looked at mammoth, but the drive up/back is too much for a spontaneous, no plans 2 day weekend. I'll ride in the morning, wife/kids will hang out, go to breakfast, then we'll get together for lunch somewhere in town. We'll hit the village shops, waterslides, slides, hike, bike , rent a boat or hang at the lake. We bought cheap enough (fixer, older place) to make sure it wasn't a financial burden, and it's been great so far. I have not doubt we could rent it out to generate some income, but, as it is, I love the flexibility. Property values have gone up over the last year, the new SS lifts have been great, and hopefully Mammoth will invest in the resort and town. We don't have plans to rent it out, but that may change as we settle in. I don't think BB is " the greatest investment" now, but it's picking up. For me, BB is so different from the OC that it provides a good balance of escape + ease, family fun, mtb, and some possible future income opportunities. good luck!
FWIW, I have been looking at buying a place in Mammoth but after looking at the numbers we couldn't make it work without paying 100% cash. The problem there (and with BB) is that the resorts are weekend destinations only so it makes it very risky when you factor in low occupancy plus the risk of California's fickle winter weather creating a bad season and your income drops a ton. If you aren't interested in using the place for Winter visits, then a lot of that risk is reduced if you then do 6 month winter rentals for the resort staff, but I don't think BB has a huge amount of transient labor? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
