Another Unfortunate MtB Fatality - Snow Summit

Discussion in 'Rider Down' started by herzalot, Aug 17, 2015.

  1. bing!

    bing! Active Member

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    image.jpg

    Thanks guys!
     
  2. ocdingbat

    ocdingbat Member

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    I am very sorry to hear the news about Allen. My condolences.
    The minute we pay for that day pass, we become liable for our own actions. Its a risk we take to do something we love. Its easy to want to blame the trail builders, ss, rescuers. I dont know what happened specifically in Allens case but it is truly sad.
    I went this weekend and saw my friend endo on that same ramp. His exact words, " i thought you could roll it like last year". Luckily he tucked and rolled and was fine. We all mentioned to him that there is a big ole sign by the ramp that says "drop". Personally, I like use the first run to get re familiarized with the trail especially if I havent been there for weeks. As some of you have mentioned, there is a sign at the top of the lift warning you of new features and or trail status. I think its awesome that things change , even if its not drastic, but it keeps things fresh.
     
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  3. zioncoming79

    zioncoming79 Old Man Dead

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    does anyone have a pic of this drop?
     
  4. McG715

    McG715 Active Member

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    10984611_10206318667539463_5994705121366222550_n.jpg
     
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  5. zman

    zman WTF ?

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    I never hit a trail full throttle first run as you never know what has changed
    R.I.P Rider
     
  6. McG715

    McG715 Active Member

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    zman.. how you been bro? Haven't seen you this season yet..
     
  7. zman

    zman WTF ?

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    We have been up but usually on Sundays this season , been kinda busy with Cars as i got into car racing ha ha
    How you guys been ?
     
  8. McG715

    McG715 Active Member

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    We've actually been leaning toward Saturdays and did one Sunday, so that may explain it :).. we are good thanks, my little guy is killing it harder than ever and is impossible to keep up with on the mountain so I don't even try :).. hopefully we will see you up there before end of season.. I know we are planning a few more trips for sure.. we also have Kamikaze Games/ProGRT in Mammoth coming up later in September.. seems like we're never home :)
     
  9. herzalot

    herzalot Well-Known Member

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    People can progress by riding harder trails, not by having the rug pulled out from under them, or deciding to make the intermediate trails suddenly more difficult. I am reasonably sure Whistler would not suddenly add forced drops or forced carries to B-Line or Crank-It-Up to make sure the riders progress. The previous iteration of the wood ramp on Westridge was technically a drop too, so I certainly wouldn't have thought twice about it. A generic sign at the top does not really alert you that a specific feature that you've ridden 200 times in the past two years has been significantly altered. Meanwhile, the trail still remains labeled as a blue trail. Every other bike park in the world has it figured out, why can't Snow Summit?

    If people of lesser skill choose to challenge themselves on a Black Diamond trail, that's great. They are choosing progression - not having progression thrust upon them unknowingly and inappropriately. They know they might be in over their heads. They know they should perhaps look at features before trying them. They know they should have the blue runs dialed before trying the blacks, etc.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2015
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  10. doublewide

    doublewide Ride Life....Ride GIANT

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    You didn't address the "Look before you leap" signs. Trail conditions change, either by design or just plan old wear. My first run down any trail is a cautious one. I honestly don't think this is the thread for this conversation, this is about a brother that lost his life doing what we all love to do. So on that note, I'm done. ;)
     
  11. McG715

    McG715 Active Member

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    Hey guys as I write this I just saw on FB someone else died at Summit today.. not sure if same jump or different one, but definitely another fatality today from what I understand.. very sad news..
     
  12. herzalot

    herzalot Well-Known Member

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    Yes, yes I did. If you have ridden a drop 100 times and there is now a sign that says drop, how would you possibly expect that feature to be drastically changed? It was a drop before. A generic sign at the top saying "hey, things may have changed" or "look before you leap" is not specific nor sufficient. Again - every other park I've ridden has this figured out. Evidently you and I will never see the other's point of view on this, so I will stop trying to convince you that making drastic changes to a blue trail without clearly marking it, and making those features advanced instead of intermediate - is willful disregard for others' reasonably safe enjoyment of an intermediate run.

    I agree with you, this is about a brother losing his life, but he may have lost his life due to drastic changes made to a blue-rated trail, and that concerns all of us. He may not have. He may have lost his life in a crash after the drop or on the first jump after it. I don't know. I do know that saying "oh well, he was unlucky" is negligent.
     
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  13. FD Pezman

    FD Pezman Member

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    Yes, from what i heard there was another fatality up there. It happened in a section of west ridge thats supposed to let you bypass the muscle beach jumps. Its the trail with the shark fin transfer and a big step down, apparently the rider lost his life on the big step down. Its kinda tricky since the landing is completely blind from the take off. I also saw a text message from a buddy that the snow summit safety crew responded fast and that possibly other riders who found him were trying to administer CPR and that some of the snow summit crew didn't know cpr?. They were unable to recesitate him.

    I don't know if its just me but either the difficulty level of this trail needs to be changed to something more appropriate or some one with a clue should start looking into building safer features. We are talking about a blue intermediate trail which makes these revelations soo alarming. I think if the trail was labeled black diamond or if they designated some lines to be pro lines then serious injury or death would be considered. I think the features are not too big or outrageous but just incorrectly built. features don't have to be dangerous if built correctly and they can still be fun for all rider levels. They should hire a new trail designer….
     
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  14. jimmymats

    jimmymats Member

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    Regarding the ratings, I've ridden Summit a few times now and love it. I think they've done a great job with the trails, but I can't discern the difference in difficulty between Miracle Mile, Westridge and Party Wave. If anything, Westridge has more features with consequences if something goes awry. I feel like Westridge is blue for the sake of having a blue run. IMO they should build a trail like Turtle from the top all the way down for beginner/intermediate and change Westridge to black.

    I'm very saddened to hear about the fatality. I was up there yesterday and heard but didn't see anything (I was on Miracle Mile at the time). My friends said it was a guy we were talking to earlier. Deepest condolences to his family and friends. My buddy crashed pretty hard yesterday, and I just can't imagine how I would feel if his injuries were more severe.
     
  15. McG715

    McG715 Active Member

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    I also agree with Herz and Double.. I've ridden alot of parks and for some reason things just don't feel right (or "as right" at SS as they do in other parks.. I also hear that this latest fatality from yesterday may also be the result of someone "alledged" to have been drinking at lunch and maybe had some addl liquid courage. I'm not going to spread unfounded rumors about something I know very little about but that is what I was reading on FB last night from some folks who were first on the scene of this latest crash or were with the guy before this happened.. either way it's another sad incident. I also agree that it's a bike park and has inherent risks and those risks will translate into injury or death if not ridden effectively. Being up there riding this season there is definitely an influx of newer riders and overall not a huge amount of variety for them within park boundaries if they are truly "new" to the sport.. not sure what the solution is.. I do feel that given the recent deaths in a 3 week span, Mammoth will be over this combing that park with a fine tooth comb and likely will revamp everything themselves next season.. just my 2 cents.. I want the park to continue to grow as planned and this kinda stuff doesn't help that growth plan.. my condolences to both families..
     
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  16. oldschoolpl510

    oldschoolpl510 Member

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    Looks like the guy yesterday was a 44 year old from Irvine. Very sad to hear all of this.
    I am curious to know the skill level of these two. Although SoCal has a lot of riders, park riding is still very new to most people. I have ridden with many people who can shred the local hills, but were very uncomfortable hitting the jumps. It is an entirely different skill set that needs to be learned. I cant complain about Snow Summit because their hands are tied with building and I love how the trails are now. I do thing they need to change the difficulty rating of that trail.
     
  17. Coast

    Coast New Member

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    Deja vu! Reading this reminds me of snow boarding at SS. When they first built the park the jumps they were doable for most decent riders. Then every year they got higher and bigger to the point that only experts could hit them all. It is sad because I loved to bomb them top to bottom and hit them all, but now I ride on the edges or on other runs. They must be using the same people to build the bike jumps. I know tons of beginner/intermediate mountain bikers, but no pros or experts so I would think that they should cater a little more to the majority and not the few! RIP Allen.
     
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  18. biknpam

    biknpam Member

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    Not that anyone from Snow Summit would read this but I seriously believe what is needed, and I realize this will harse the experience plus there really isn't personnel to monitor gates but on these difficult runs there needs to be gates. Someone needs to be at those gates and only those that have "pre-qualified" on other runs should be allowed to enter the course. But frankly probably won't make a differnce. People will lie about skill level and ability. I noticed this recently, probably within the last 5 years (I've been mountain biking since 1980's) that there is a whole new crew of riders with limited experience and limited riding time; who just want to thrill seek. It's not about the ride but the adrenaline. Old time riders like that too but worked up to it, over many years and alot of skill training. Now "newbies" buy top end bikes (when you start out on a cheap rigid bike what you can try is limited so a good thing); think it will allow them to do more (and frankly it does); and they ride way over their heads. Of course, I maybe off base here with this situation; but I suspect not.

    Again; I do plead to everyone, especially you men and women with families; do not take unnecessary risk. It really shouldn't be all about you when there are young and loved ones at home.

    Please stay safe!
     
  19. biknpam

    biknpam Member

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    Got this off another site, the man had 4 young children at home... sort of makes me very angry and very sad for his family. Hope it was all worth it for him to try...

    "Andy Hoang's Children Fund

    Dear Andy's Family, Friends, Co-Workers, and all who have known Andy,

    In remembrance of Andy Hoang, we have setup an Andy Hoang's Children Fund for his four young children. Andy has touched so many people with his kindness and inviting spirit. It is hard to think he has left us unexpectedly and so soon.

    Andy leaves behind his caring wife, Mindy, married for 13 years and four children Ashlyn, 12; Brandon, 11; Cate, 9; and Drew, 7. They do family activities nearly every week. They enjoyed bike rides to the beach, play dates with other families, and especially Church on Sundays.


    more here: https://www.youcaring.com/mindy-hoang-422760#.VeOVzOLkOhc.facebook"
     
  20. doublewide

    doublewide Ride Life....Ride GIANT

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    And on these words of wisdom, I am forever, never, never leaving my house! I think that'll reduce the "unnecessary risk". :confused:
     
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