Yesterday at Southridge I was totally amazed at the number of different bikes, manufacturers, suspensions styles and to be honest it was mind-blowing, I loved it. It seemed to me that there was the greatest number of different bikes on the 4x course I saw everything from DH to FR to HT bikes on this course and I'm wondering what makes a good 4x bike. I've seen Destroyer take his Transition down it at pretty good speeds (not yesterday) and I saw everything from nearly BMX bikes to a Heckler come down the track yesterday. So my question is what makes a good 4x bike. HT or FS and 3, 4, or 5 inches of travel? I figure a 29er is probably out of the question altogether but I may be wrong. I know that E.C. and Lopes generally ride HT's but these guys are the masters of the sport so what does the average joe do for a 4x bike and is a good 4x bike any good for anything else? Thanks I look forward to hearing from everyone.
One important thing I can think of is a low enough seat tube so you can slam the seat down. A good 4X bike also can make a good dirt jump bike.
I say H/t 100mm fork, light weight components but not carbon fiber bars light. I prefer a h/t to a full squish because you get more drive out of the gate and the corners and can manual what you dont jump alot of times manualing is faster anyways.
vice versa also alot of my friends that like to ride 4x use their dirt jump bikes i say if you want to get into 4x, get a hardtail with a 80-120 mm travel fork. the hardtail will also teach you to be a smoother rider
A Santa Cruz Chameleon like this one would make a great 4X bike with a few changes, such as a chain retention system (and removing the front rings), a 50 mm stem, and some different tires. There's some fine tuning that could be done after that, such as to the fork. Really, I think this is a great frame for 4X. That's what I would use, if I had one. In regards to fork height, there are other variables than just travel, specifically chainstay length. Some of the DJ bikes out there have very short chainstays, which make it very easy to manual the front wheel. My Azonic has longer chainstays on it, which make it difficult to manual (or speed jump) with my Pike 454 set at 110 mm. However, if I set the fork at 140, it lifts the front up a bit, shifting my weight on the bike rearward which makes it much easier to manual. On Saturday, I originally had my fork set at 110, and I had a hard time getting the front of the first set of doubles, but after changing it to 140, it was much easier (except for the second moto where my timing was off, but no fork or bike would have made a difference). In the suspension vs. hardtail debate, it depends on the course...and even still, the HT will have advantages in some places and the HT will have advantages in others. Although I really don't have a preference, I currently have a HT.
I would get a hard tail with short chainstays and a 80-120mm travel fork for it if I was going to race. I would probably only have a rear brake, 1x9 gearing with a road cassette, and look for something light weight 26-30 pound range.
If I were to race 4X I would get a bike that would be fun for urban assualts and DJ as well. These look pretty cool and reasonably priced: http://www.transitionbikes.com/2007/TrailOrPark.cfm
I think the Chameleon may be getting a make over and sometime will be spent at Fontucky unless there is a course down here in the Temecula area?
As Geronimo mentioned, 4X bikes are generally fun to play on everywhere. I've had mine for almost 8 years now, but never raced it until this weekend. It's been my beater bike, play bike, urban assault bike, BMX bike, XC bike, DH bike, buddy bike, girlfriend bike, convince-me-to-get-a-singlespeed bike. Only recently has it benefitted from a few upgrades (including bleeding the brakes for the first time in 8 years on Saturday night before the DH race). Although the geometry on that Transition looks a bit goofy, a couple of the fastest and most talented riders were riding Black Market bikes http://blackmarketbikes.com/three57.html The guy who bunnyhopped the downed rider in the third turn and the only guy to clear the triples among many other really cool stylistic riding tricks were both on Black Market bikes. I've recently seen these bikes at The Path, and if I were to buy a complete, one of these would probably be it (and then add a front brake).
Actually the geo between the black market and the Transition are pretty similar. I think the ToP looks kind of goofy because it's a small frame in the picture. If you look at a large it looks normal. Below: grey is a small and the white is Mike Metzgers new large, and the bottom is the Black Market 357, they all look sweet!!!o How much is the Path asking for the 357? I want to go ride the 4x track now.
Ok, the white Transition looks nice, but as you said, it's probably because the gray one is a small is the reason it looks goofy. I think msrp for the 357 is $999, but I don't know what The Path is selling them for. Although not shown on the web site, I think there may be different models of the 357...or was that different models of completes from Black Market? I think my old Azonic Evolution may need to be retired soon. I'd like something with a little shorter chainstays.
The transition almost looks like the Jackal. (at least from that pic) Lee wasn't it tough clearing the rocky sections on a hardtail? You must have a pretty damn smooth riding style! I've been having a problem with the rear wheel sliding all over the place when I jump (just small jump in the backyard) After each 'run' I've gotta bang the wheel back into place and when I tried to tighten the rear bolt the disc rubs now! Any fixes cause the Chameleon was bought to replace the Bullit as my beater anyways and with the new XC bike I might as well do it right! Besides I've found that after a long ride on the road bike or the Heckler it's just sort of fun to go beat around the block or the backyard.
What do you mean about having to bang your wheel back into place? A problem that I occasionally have with the slotted dropouts is that if I don't get the quick-release ungodly tight, the rear disc brake can cause the left side of the hub to move rearward. Fortunately, I usually remember to really crank that thing down. Also, what do you mean by your rear wheel sliding around off of jumps?
Below is a pic of the Jackal and it has the similar geo to the Transition ToP and the 357. here is a sweet video with guys from Transition and the red and white bike in the beginning is a jackal. http://www.littermag.com/2008/videos/viewvideo.php?videoID=1094 If anyone is looking for a killer 4x bike with style these guys know how to do it, I always deal with Allen and he's been great. http://dropnzone.com/Products.cfm?Cat=30 More Jackals: http://www.sicklines.com/2007/03/22/what-the-pros-ride-jamie-goldmans-jackal/ http://www.sicklines.com/2007/03/20/what-the-pros-ride-kirt-voreis-jackal-single-speed/ http://www.sicklines.com/2007/03/12/what-the-pros-ride-kirt-voreis-santa-cruz-jackal/ Other 4x/dj bikes: http://www.sicklines.com/2007/03/29/what-the-pros-ride-cody-warren/ http://www.sicklines.com/news-images/Lars_Sternberg.jpg http://www.sicklines.com/2007/03/21/what-the-pros-ride-travis-eriksons-transition-trail-or-park/ http://www.sicklines.com/2007/03/13/what-the-pros-ride-jd-swanguens-cove-foreplay-mx/ http://www.sicklines.com/2007/03/06/what-the-pros-ride-brian-lopes-gt-55/
4x bikes make fun trail bikes! i ride mine all the time.... geometry is crappy for climbing, but its not designed for that. the bikes usually have a 69* head angle or close to that, short stays, low bb and long wheel base.
Did anyone get any video of the 4x action yesterday last weekend? How did the new section flow? It looks kind of sluggish since that triple looks impossible??? We need to have some 4x on Friday...
The new section wasn't as bad as it was when Sharky and I tried riding it on the Friday before. At that time, it felt like hitting a sand pile. The guy who Sharky caught a picture going over the third berm was the only guy who cleared the triple. He was very impressive to watch. He would manual out of the fourth turn all the way down to the lower level, and drop the wheel into the fifth turn - all while under full sprint. Way cool! The one time I tried riding through the triples aiming toward the inside whoop, I wadded it up...I'm not sure what I did wrong, but whatever I did, it didn't work. So for my race, I just went through the triples then hit the berm. I don't remember, but I think I kind of jumped the first two, then rolled the third.
