Lift Accessed Riding @ Waterman?

I got some saws and shovels,lots of wood and a lot of pallets that I can brake down so we can build jumps doubles ladders drops maybe some buckets do build dirt jumps !

 

I hate to be the one to tell you all this but this is public forest service land and as far as I know it is required to go through the NEPA process like any other trail or development! I want this as much as anyone but I hate to see a bunch of guys running up there building stuff and have the Forest Service shut it down! Then we are back to square one! Be patient and do it right the first time so it is there for good not just a few weeks!

 

Muchas Gracias

Thank you El President for the wise words. We are not going to go crazy. We have an intrest in long term success.

 

Hans maybe you an help Roberto out, the Forest Service is not returning his calls. I suggested the he stay out of the forest and build some doubles and tabletops on or near the fireroads before encouraging folks to start fall lines. I am sure by the end of the weekend some hiker on Waterman Trail will be complaining, then the Forest Service will contact him.

Dean

 

I talked to him yesterday and will send him an e mail now.

The FS monitors this site so they will know about this soon! Also the sheriff has probably already filed a complaint about this with the FS too!

 

This could be the begining of something epic! :-k I'm not sure if anyone else sees it this way, but the ability to essentially design our own trails with chairlift access, and the prospect of other people riding them, seems pretty awesome to me. As always with trail building, my operating services are always available if any serious earth moving is to take place :bang:

 

excited about this. I don't know much about trail building advocacy... but i do know a thing or two about carpentry and wielding a shovel.

I'll be watching this thread closely.

 

I'm down for giving up a weekend or two of riding for trail building. I think all of us agree with Hans and hope we cover all our bases with the FS so that our work does not go to waste. :beer:

 

Honestly, I think everyone is getting ahead of what actually can be achieved at Mt. Waterman. I think it would be great to have some lift accessed terrain however if you have ever been to Waterman the front trail is very steep and besides on the access road I can not seeing it be very fun.

As long as they build a few trails on the terrain maybe near chair 2 or 3 and run the backside lifts as well then I could see some good things happening. I know the owners of Mt. Waterman do not have money to spend for all the Environmental studies previously mentioned. If we cut a few trails near those lifts with some ladders, drops and so on it could be fun without going nuts.

I agree there needs to be someone telling us what to get done. There needs to be direction and a crew working together.So who is in charge?

I am ready to help and have shovels,saws and whatever else we need. In addition we will need water to compact the dirt, do we have access to that as I dont believe Waterman has snowmaking or a snowmaking pond.

 

Pallet wood is usually subpar and I wouldn't consider it.

Looks like we have a good size group going up Sunday. Lifts open at 9:00 or 9:30 am so we will be meeting up there around 10 am.

 

Has Roberto agreed to meet with people on Sunday? If so, that sounds like a perfect chance to roundtable and see what's going on. I agree with Monarch, however. People are putting the cart before the horse, I don't see Mt. Waterman fronting money for all the necessary studies to be done to see if theres one piece of algae that might be disturbed so something will need to be negotiated. Hopefully it wont be as one sided as Big Bear and maybe USFS will be willing to give a little?

So, Roberto, are you going to be around this Sunday?

 

Before building on USFS land contact the USFS!

Guys, seriously check with the USFS otherwise you are wasting your time and you run the risk of causing the Waterman guys some big headaches.

The NEPA process requires that studies and all sorts of stuff be done before you start building a new trail on USFS land.

If illegal unsustainable trails are built without proper studies, Mt Waterman runs the risk of being shut down, sued by the Sierra Club or worse losing their lease.

I'll find the numbers to the USFS and I'll post up here so you can talk to them directly. I don't think the Waterman guy is the subject matter expert, so talk to the USFS first. Please!

Here's a link to the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA)

http://www.epa.gov/oecaerth/basics/nepa.html

 

Unless they are oak pallets. I have seen a lot of pallets made from oak. I used to break them down and make a lot of 'good stuff' from them.

 

I think you guys should stop before this gets out of hand.

It's not going to be good times at Waterman when the Sierra Club or the USFS finds out about this stuff. Seriously!

 

jesus f'in christ! I seriously hate Bureaucracy. Maybe with our new budget some of these FS idiots will grow a sack and realize that bike trails can be made sustainable, so far they've nixed MTB for self serving reasons, imo. Sorry, rant over. I'm sure the USFS services noble functions but I think a lot of their policies need to be updated, they are living in a world that doesn't exist, imo.

 

Hallelujah!

 

Roberto will not be there Sunday one of his partners Brian Metcalf will. I realize people are excited but everyone needs to just slow down a bit, things like this do not happen fast. No one knows where this is going to led. Marino is total right, a bunch of ladders and jumps built out of lumber would get under Sierra Clubs and FS skin.

Dean

 

Dean, thanks for the support to do things the right way.

I believe if you cut new trails into the ground you need approval- even if no wooden structures are built!

It seems like it is way too early to go up there with the intention to build, dig, cut new trails and blaze new trails. Instead of planning to build stuff or riding where there are no trails, I think the idea should be about planning, organizing, etc so that a responsible and sustainable system of trails/features can be built. :beer:

 

You guys want to do this do it right. Maybe contact the guys from Whistler that do trail building and legal stuff. They have worked with USFS.

http://www.whistlergravitylogic.com/who.html

 

I don't think anyone is getting that far ahead of anyone else. I understand a word of caution, but lets not put a negative on this right away. Trails can be built sustainably if people are willing to put the extra work in. AKA using downed trees as a structure for wood features. You don't have to go up there and start framing out a house with 2x4's. You can move some soil, move some rock, and use downed trees..