2wheel-Lee's Adventure in Frame Building

For my initial builds, I will use the prebent seat and chainstays available from some of the suppliers.

But...I do have visions of bending tubes somewhere down the line. Like others, I'm going to be very tight on space. I don't have much room in the garage, and I have a very small covered patio. This will be one of my greatest challenges. I have a few designs on how I can build my own tube bender. Did I mention that building much of my own tooling will be most of the fun?

Although notching tubes is relatively simple - albeit tedious, I have one of the key components I'll need to build my own tubing notcher. I also already have an idea on how I can make my own disc brake tab mounting jig.

Oh, I'm very familiar with those! :wave: So is the local police department. Hopefully all those who were in the know are now retired. #-o

mmmm....doughnuts...err...JD2 tube bender. Nice! I like JD2 tools. Is this yours? do you want to sell it? Hey, if I can get stuff cheaper than I can make stuff for, well...it's worth considering.

 

actually I may sell it, I used it for bending prerunner bumpers, give me a day to think about it.

 

Oxy acc is a good welding setup. Personally, If I could afford it, zi eould go for the tig....But DAMN... Costly.


Rosebuds are for softening metals prior to shaping, and forming. Thats alot of heat for general heating.


Cool part about a cutting torch, with the right tip it will weld just fine. But at the same time, that tip will cost as much as the right welding torch and tip.

Post pics soon as you can.


What will you be using for material??? Not sure if i just missed it

 

Lee, you sounds like you were the same as i was as a kid.
i have a guy that is a master welder/brazer, he is in el monte i believe, so if you are ever gonna get a day off, or feel like going out that way, he may have some scrap metal/steel/luminum, you could practice welding or brazing so that when you do get around to making a frame, you will be a great brazer or welder.
chekck out this site for suplpies, suh as BB's and headtube's, as well as other materials... dropouts etc.
alignments tools, and they are pretty fairly priced.
i'll post up the link in a second, i gotta get it from my PM's

http://www.novacycles.com/catalog/

 

:?::?::?: I think that should be present tense not past

:lol:

 

Thanks Brandon (I posted that link in your thread ). But alas...I've compiled a fairly good sized list of suppliers. And your idea of getting spare material to practice with is good. Although it may be hard for me to get time of work to go up to see your buddy, it sounds l ike a great opportunity.

In the meantime, I'm planning on ordering some material from a supplier. Although they're not tubes intended for a bicycle, they're similiar (heck, a thin wall 4103 cromo tube is basically the same, right?).

And I still need to get my O/A setup into good working order. So many things to do, so little time! I know I said that I'd likely not see a completed frame by summer, but did I specify what year? Maybe I should clarify that and say next year! :lol:

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Mission control, we have a problem! Information overload!

I found the frame building manual from Tim Paternek. Normally it's available for purchase, but I found this site that has it posted for free! All 434 pages. I've saved the pdf to my computer, and I'll read it in my spare time (on my flight to Ohio this weekend?). Again, being realistic, I'm not sure how much patience I'll have to read it. I'm more of a writer than I am a reader. Go figure (especially considering many of my key responsibilities in many of my prior jobs was being an editor).

http://www.icelord.net/bike/paterek.pdf

 

didnt realise you posted it in my thread, another member PM'ed it to me before that.
i have a tube bender if you need one :-k

 

I think I may have said this, but I don't really see the need of a tube bender in the near future. When I actually do get to the point of assembling frames, I'll likely just use the prebent seat and chainstays from Nova or Henry James.

But...what size tubes do you have the fixtures for?

 

I can't wait to see a full TI japanese commuter style bike! That would be PIMP!!! With the obligatory umbrella holder, hand warmer/guards, wire basket, and finally the rear mounted center kickstand! Of course they would all be hand fabricated using TI!!!!

 

not sure, my grandpa fixes pipe threading machines, so he has access to almost any tube bending/shaping machine out there.
he said he has a tube bender he was going to get rid of, but he said he would keep it for when i was getting ready to build my frame.
i also have a buddy that used to build off road cars, and custom rhino accessories.
between them, and the welder i have, i should be able to get a jig made and get a bike frame built once i get the spare cash.

 

Lee, I just happen to know someone with a pretty complete shop. If you ever need some mill or lathe time I just might be able to set you up.

 

Just the man I was hoping to hear from! :bang: You can bet that when I need machining help, I will take you up on your offer! :wave:

I don't know about TI, but she has requested a mama cheri (aka charinko)! That will be the first and/or frame, I think.

 

OMG!!!:lol: :clap::bang: That would be awesome!

 

Blasphemy!!!! Lee, you could lose your man-card if you keep it up. Making sparks and little slabs of molten steel is major good stuff.

If Spookydave's machines are ever tied up, I'm about six miles from the Loop with a basic set up. Lathes, mills, cutting torches and something sure to bring a smile to your face- a 50 amp Plasma torch.

 

+1 to that. if it's the friend he referred me to for my lights, he was quite nice to work with (though I've yet to put together money to make the dang things).

out of curiosity, what sort of welding would you need to build a basic cro-mo frame? would mig be sufficient? or is there a better way? I'm a welding noob fwiw

 

I may barely know a little more than you regarding welding...emphasis on barely.

When it comes to bicycle frames, most are done with TIG. However, many custom builders braze the frames. Some use lugs and some use fillets.

Here are some examples of a fillet joint and a lugged joint (I'll be doing fillet joints):

 

My dad use to make custom tandems and he combined luggs and fillets. He use to pick up those old abandoned bikes that would pile up at the local bike shops and recycle the tubes and luggs. He never made jiggs he would use strings, tape, a bolt on axle and a couble straight edges. The project sounds cool good luck.

 

Hey, Lee. That's certainly a gonzo project you're undertaking. To the casual observer, it would seem... absurd... which is what makes it all the more cool.

Here's one idea. First, get yourself an old junker frame, chop it up, braze it together, repeat. You'll want to get a feel for the material and the thicknesses you'll be working with on the final assembly.

I'm curious about the distortion that you'll experience with uneven heating and cooling. With a good jig and careful application of heat, it may not even be an issue. Please take pictures of your work as it progresses.

 

It certainly wouldn't be the first absurd thing I've done! :lol: I heard a lot of people say the same thing when I gutted my condo to the studs - even in the bathroom and kitchen, even removing all of the cabinets. I had no prior experience with anything I did. After I completed, my friends who were in various forms of construction and remodeling said that I could always get a job doing that stuff. I was even offered a few jobs! I'm also regularly reminded by a neighbor that I have a standing offer to do tile work for the company he works for.

But there have been a number of projects that I never got around to finish. I've done several frame-off car/truck rebuilds, but there were a couple that I didn't get to finish. Such as life. I keep saying stuff like this because it takes away the pressure I put on myself to see this through. I don't want to do this because I said I would, I only want to do this as long as I want. I think you know what I mean.

Back to the topic...
The challenge with junker frames is cleaning up the material once it's cut. Of course this is not impossible, it just takes more time - I'd rather buy and start with clean materials, just like I'll be building with. Ok, I'm a bit lazy, and the cost of raw tubing is less than the headached of finding and stripping frames.

A top tube or down tube is said to extend up to 2-3 mm during the heating process. If the tubes are held firmly in a jig, there are a number of probable problems:
- The jig deforms to absorb the movement of the tubes.
- The brazed joint hardens while "stressed" - this makes bad joints.
- The tube itself deforms (also kind of bad).

Granted, I could set up a jig so that it can move with the tubes, but that doesn't really help anything much.

Morever, when the frame is in a jig, it's hard to move the frame around to easily access all joints for brazing. Also, you may not want to work "downhill" and moving a jig around can be difficult - even a lightweight jig.

The generally preferred method is to simply tack the frame in a jig, then put the frame in a bike stand where you can easily and rapidly move the frame in all directions with one hand so you can always have the ideal position. When I get home, I'll post a youtube video that shows an example of this.

 

Sounds like you've got it well thought out.

When welding a project where precision is required, frequent measurement is the key to success. When I start feeling really smart and forego frequent measuring, I invariably end up with a series of small inaccuracies that result in a finished piece that's a mile off.

Tack one joint. Measure. Adjust accordingly. Measure again. Repeat.

Every weld, as it cools, shrinks and pulls the joint in that direction. If you find that a joint is pulled one way, weld on the other side to pull it back.

To the factories anneal frames after they're finished? It seems like a good idea, but most people don't have kitchens big enough to house such a big oven.