Cable housing?

[RustyIron]

Looking for some advice here. Maybe this is common knowledge, but this is an area where I have no experience.

The problem is with the rear derailleur. Recently, shifting started getting a bit wonky. The one variable that seems relevant is cable lubrication.

After I work on the bike, shifting is perfect for about fifty miles, then moving to a larger cog requires just a little more push on the shifter. Moving to a smaller cog becomes sluggish. The symptom won't end a ride, but it's just not as fun as when everything's perfect.

I can manually pull on the exposed cable, and it takes an unreasonable amount of tension to move the derailleur. When I release tension, the derailleur does not move back with 100% consistency.

Lubrication eliminates the problem for another 50 miles. Dirt is not the problem.

My guess is that the inside of the cable housings are worn. If that's the case, what are my options? Can I buy bulk housing, a cutter, and the ends? Is all housing and cable the same, or should I look for a particular brand that offers superior performance?

Thanks,
Rob

[CalEpic]

Cheapie housing is fine IMO. I used to use the Avid Flak Jackets but had too many problems. Good quality cutters make a difference.

C

[Collette]

Originally Posted by CalEpic

Cheapie housing is fine IMO. I used to use the Avid Flak Jackets but had too many problems. Good quality cutters make a difference.

C

Agree, Agree, and most definitely agree.

NEVER, EVER use wire cutters to cut housing. They compress the hell out of them(trust me I know).

Shimano Rear, or SRAM. If Shimano, how big/small is the bend?

[DISCO]

Even with copious lube the cable could still be binding due to kinks in the housing. Even worse the cable could be frayed inside the housing where you will never see it. I'll bet I'm not the only member with a pair of housing cutters but as stated above they are a must have for this job. As far as parts the black (teflon coated) cables are superior if you can find them. They aren't any slicker but the coating inhibits rust longer than non-coated. As far as housing I generally lean toward 5mm BMX Linear brake cable style, particularly in the loop down to a Shimano rear deraileur. Precision really doesn't suffer since the housing wont compress and even with a few kinks the cable can still move freely inside. While you are at the shop make sure you pick up a about a half dozen ferrules and a good long lasting bottle of Tri-Flow and your shifting issues will cease.

[2wheel_lee]

The Dura-Ace and XTR housing is Shimano part SP-41. There is an SP-40, but that's more of a generic housing. As mentioned, the SP-41 comes lined with a special grease. Also, only use Shimano teflon coated cables.

I've asked many shops about SP-41, and I usually get a blank look from their faces. They usually want to sell you the Dura-Ace/XTR kits, but in the case of my M3, the kits don't include a long section that frame requires. The kits include everything you'll need, but if you have particular needs, order the SP-41 (I recently found a shop that sold me a roll of 30 feet for about $20).

But even the owner of that shop thought I was strange for wanting "special" housing, saying that it's all the same. That can't be further from the truth. I've used many generic housings that turned to junk in no time. There are other good housings available, but I haven't found anything else that performs as well or lasts as long as SP-41.

[DISCO]

Nothing wrong with using a little "More Power". Typically I can just lube up the tip of the cable to open up the housing, but it can be flexy.......

[dubjay]

I had a similar problem when I had 5mm derailleur housing. The inner teflon thing would end up going through the hole in the ferrule. Check your rear-most section of housing and see if this is happening to you too.

When I switched to 4mm housing (like Shimano XTR), I didn't have any more problems. And FWIW, I don't use any lube on cables.

[2wheel_lee]

Originally Posted by dubjay

And FWIW, I don't use any lube on cables.

Also FWIW, Shimano recommends not to use lube with their teflon calbles and XTR (SP-41) housing.

[thephat]

Originally Posted by dubjay

I had a similar problem when I had 5mm derailleur housing. The inner teflon thing would end up going through the hole in the ferrule. Check your rear-most section of housing and see if this is happening to you too.

When I switched to 4mm housing (like Shimano XTR), I didn't have any more problems. And FWIW, I don't use any lube on cables.

It sure sound like you have the diagnosis down.


Shimano sp 41 is all that we have used in our workshop for several years. It is also what you get if you buy housing from us in bulk.

I have had pretty goood luck with some generic stuff, but not as good as sp41. I hate the Jag and the Avid stuff, I think it is the worst (extra friction). The generic housing sometimes shoots the inner wires out the ends.

The cut is crucial as others gave said. For best results the cut should be as clean and square as possible. A confident cut with sharp cutters held perpendicular to the housing is good. You can square the housing end up with a grinder if nec, but go easy so as not to melt the inner plastic liner.

Matt's cut off recomendation is good too. Just be carefull that you don't melt that inner liner. I like to have a sharp object to open the whole at the housing end. I recomend Rock and Roll Cable magic for your housings.

If you ride a lot, new housing every 6-12 months will keep your shifting smoother. If your bike encounters a lot of water, it may be more frequent.

[autoduel]

i picked up some aztec powerlines for under 20 at rei. similar to nokons, but smaller with an outer sleeve. definitely lighter than strand housing. easy to but with a knife and always square. shifting is just as precise. i also recommend the bassworm if they still make it. adds more tension on the cable.

[thephat]

Originally Posted by mechmann

I am used to getting called Jason (after all, it ins't that far off from Justin), I guess mechmann became Matt?

blame it on the meds bud...

hope you are feeling OK. heal fast!!

I don't know where that came from. It is wierd typing with one hand while taking these pills. Suddenly though, I find myself with little else to do.

Wasn't there a mechmanmatt somewhere on the interweb? I think that's the wire that got crossed in my brain.

Thanks for the well wishes. The pain took a first step back today. It's good to see it go into retreat.

[Rob]

A spoke with the end grinded to a point works great for opening up the inner liner when you cut the housing.

Agreed on the SP-41.

[OffRoadie]

Originally Posted by mechmann

one thing that isn't being mentioned.

you don't need housing cutters if you have a dremel tool and cutoff wheel.

simply cut the housing with the cutoff wheel (make it nice and square) then use a small screwdriver or Xacto blade to make sure the teflon liner is not obstructed.

I think a dremel tool is better than a housing cutter. I have the Park housing cutter, and it doesn't work that well for brake housing, which is different than derailleur housing. Dremel tool cuts a cleaner, more square, finished edge.

[RustyIron]

Thanks everyone for the cornucopia of sage advice. I'll pick up SP-41 and teflon cables, and have me some fun.

[92se-r]

I run full Jagwire housing with Teflon cables. Works great. After recently using the XTR cables/housing, I'd have to agree that it works very well. I just feel that using full housing is even better. That way you only have 2 spots for dirt to go in. I also spray silicone lubricant into the housings.

[Chris]

Try Nokon housing
Best housing I have ever used.

[KBL]

One thing I didn't see mentioned yet: no matter what housing and cable type you use, try to eliminate or minimize sharp bends. This may take a bit of trial and error, so you'll want to have extra derailleur cables and crimp-on cable end caps available during your wrenching session.

I haven't tried the Nokon or the Aztec housing, but if it works as advertised it should be able to handle sharp bends without binding up on the shifting wire.

If you're using a Shimano rear derailleur, an Avid Roll-a-Majig (if you can find one) can be used to eliminate the housing loop that goes from the seat stay/chain stay to the rear derailleur.

One mo' thing...if you're working on a bike with rear suspension, make sure that the housing doesn't develop sharp bends when the suspension cycles from full droop to full bump. On my frame, I found that the bike shifted waaaay differently in the work stand than it did when I was riding it and the suspension was cycling up and down.

Hope this helps!

[slowSSer]

question: are the housing ends present? I've run into recent issues for not running those little plastic housing end caps.

just a thought...

[RustyIron]

Thanks everyone for the advice. Neil hooked me up with the goods this afternoon and after work I slapped it all together. MAN! What a difference. The pressure on the shifter needed to move the derailleur is dramatically different -- so much it's hard to believe.

Some sage bit of wisdom he imparted upon me? You should change the cables twice a year if you ride a twice a week. YOWZA!!! I won't embarrass myself by saying how much further I've pushed those cables and housings. It's no wonder that shifting was a little "off."

I can't WAIT to get out and ride that baby. She'll be like a new bike. Surely the new housings will shave half a minute off my Loop times.

[dirttorpeedo]

then use a small screwdriver or Xacto blade to make sure the teflon liner is not obstructed.[/quote]
sharpen an old spoke to a fine point and you can open up housing liner.