why is Specialized better then this guy's frame???

[Pato]

Originally Posted by .8down

good discussion guys...keep going? is 6061 alum the same? are warranties created equal? what if your craftsman at Ellsworth is having a bad day do you get a bad bike?

Not all warranties are created equal. Funny that you would mention Ellsworth. Try getting warranty service from them. Good luck! On the other side of the spectrum, Turner and Ventana are both top notch.

[.8down]

Originally Posted by Pato

I'd like to also add that just because two frames look similar they can handle quite differently. Frame material and butting, pivot locations and frame geometry can make a huge difference in feel and performance. The larger manufacturers can also often times have the suspension manufacturers valve the shock specifically for their frames designs. Usually, you get what you pay for, but not always.

If you are looking for a good 6" frame for cheap consider the Giant Reign for a cool 4 bills.
http://wheelworld.com/itemdetails.cf...gId=39&id=4621
It won't be the first to the top of the hill, but it definitely won't be the last one down.

If you don't like it, you can always sell it and get your money back and then some.

I have my target locked on the 08 Reign 1, so Im a step ahead of you, this discussion is about money, but not in the sense that I'm not will to drop the coin but more why. I have kept an open mind though out my search and will continue to. everyone is making valid points on both ends of the specturm. my thing is the bike doesn't make the rider. just because I can put down K's does it mean Im going to be fast? probably not. will it help? maybe, but will a $1800 frame kick an $550 frame's arse? No, the rider does that.

[tkblazer]

just get the R1, its going to climb/descend better and most likely build up lighter than that sette frame.

[Pato]

Originally Posted by .8down

my thing is the bike doesn't make the rider. just because I can put down K's does it mean Im going to be fast? probably not. will it help? maybe, but will a $1800 frame kick an $550 frame's arse? No, the rider does that.

Very, very true. The rider is the biggest part of the equation. But all other things being equal, would a pro DH racer go down the mountain faster on a Canfield frame or a Schwinn? Yes, you are paying a bit for the name painted on that frame, but some level of quality and performance comes with it. Not always, but it's a safer bet.

I'm not bad mouthing the smaller, less expensive manufacturers. It's just if I never got to test ride two frames and one was from a well known and respected manufacturer and the other wasn't, I'd tend to go with what's been proven. Will they be 2-3 times better as the prices would indicate? Most likely not.

I also think that it is a little bit our fault that bike prices are soaring. It is because we are willing to pay these prices that they remain to be high.

[.8down]

Originally Posted by Pato

I also think that it is a little bit our fault that bike prices are soaring. It is because we are willing to pay these prices that they remain to be high.

then shall I start a revolution???? I dunno...thats what Sette's marketing department(if they have one) is claiming to do....I feel like wanting the Giant is already off the beaten path....

[Pato]

Originally Posted by .8down

then shall I start a revolution???? I dunno...thats what Sette's marketing department(if they have one) is claiming to do....I feel like wanting the Giant is already off the beaten path....

If they were the only choice in that price range and all others were in the $1500+, I might give it a go. It can't be all that bad if they are using a Swinger 4 -Way. Since there are other choices like the Giant Reign 2 for $150 less. That's where my money would go.

I know this was more of a discussion thread about the justification of premium prices on frames, so I hope somewhere in my many ramblings I've made a clear point.

[.8down]

Originally Posted by Pato

If they were the only choice in that price range and all others were in the $1500+, I might give it a go. It can't be all that bad if they are using a Swinger 4 -Way. Since there are other choices like the Giant Reign 2 for $150 less. That's where my money would go.

I know this was more of a discussion thread about the justification of premium prices on frames, so I hope somewhere in my many ramblings I've made a clear point.

actually out of all the posters you are the least biased, I noticed a little Turner hating earlier by one person, Im just trying to look at everything as hard facts not an opinion based on a biased, or any type of marketing from Sette or Ellsworth or Turner or Spec, as I stated I have an 02 stumpy, and Im looking for an AM bike. btw, that Reign is too small for me, I need an 18, plus the 08 is lighter

[allison]

Originally Posted by .8down

actually out of all the posters you are the least biased, I noticed a little Turner hating earlier by one person, Im just trying to look at everything as hard facts not an opinion based on a biased, or any type of marketing from Sette or Ellsworth or Turner or Spec, as I stated I have an 02 stumpy, and Im looking for an AM bike. btw, that Reign is too small for me, I need an 18, plus the 08 is lighter

Unfortunately we're all biased by what we ride. If we didn't think it was the best (we could afford) then we'd be riding something else, right?

If I didn't like any of my bikes I'd sell it and try to save for something I did!!

I think the majority of people ride what they see advertised (it's accessible) and what they see others riding.

I didn't really have experience with seeing what others rode, but when I was looking into getting a bike at all the LBS guy that we liked could build up Ellsworth's that were way out of our price range, or we could get the bikes we chose (I'll keep names out of it) for a bit cheaper.

Unfortunately we ended up replacing a bunch of stuff on my bike early on for lighter parts But, those have all transferred over to other bikes/frames.

If you are asking why people buy the more expensive frames, and why they are more expensive, I think it's pretty much been covered here.

Everything else is just fluff, right?

[.8down]

Originally Posted by allison

Unfortunately we're all biased by what we ride. If we didn't think it was the best (we could afford) then we'd be riding something else, right?

If I didn't like any of my bikes I'd sell it and try to save for something I did!!

I think the majority of people ride what they see advertised (it's accessible) and what they see others riding.

I didn't really have experience with seeing what others rode, but when I was looking into getting a bike at all the LBS guy that we liked could build up Ellsworth's that were way out of our price range, or we could get the bikes we chose (I'll keep names out of it) for a bit cheaper.

Unfortunately we ended up replacing a bunch of stuff on my bike early on for lighter parts But, those have all transferred over to other bikes/frames.

If you are asking why people buy the more expensive frames, and why they are more expensive, I think it's pretty much been covered here.

Everything else is just fluff, right?

Im a man with no loyalties I guess...both mt bikes I've owned have been Specs...my M2 hartail and now my Stumpy S-works...and yet I want a Giant...yea everythings been covered. Will I die if someone passes me on a Sette? no I will just ride more...

[DasBrink]

Get the giant, I have the bike you are looking at, a reign 1 08'. It is a great bike, it peddles well, looks great, does not feel like it is a tank, and is upgradeable. you will not be disappointed. If we both make it to the loop on thursday you can take it for a spin.

[tkblazer]

Originally Posted by DasBrink

Get the giant, I have the bike you are looking at, a reign 1 08'. It is a great bike, it peddles well, looks great, does not feel like it is a tank, and is upgradeable. you will not be disappointed. If we both make it to the loop on thursday you can take it for a spin.

i'm gonna have to check out your bike man... from all the stuff i've read its a solid 7lb lighter than mine

[DasBrink]

No worries! just find me, and we can swap for a few miles. I clip with Crank Bros. But they are mallets, so you can ride them as flats.

[.8down]

Originally Posted by tkblazer

i'm gonna have to check out your bike man... from all the stuff i've read its a solid 7lb lighter than mine

I think he may also be on a Large, and from what I recall you ride a Med. (18inch)

[tkblazer]

size won't matter, i just want to see how the ride is with a lighter overall bike... should be really fun

[.8down]

Originally Posted by tkblazer

size won't matter

No comment

[jcampbell]

I am all over the place, I do own an Ellsworth, but I also own a couple Specialized, a GT, and ... a... ZION. Can't get any cheaper than that.

[tkblazer]

i dunno jeff, i rode a $30 hardtail frame for a while

Originally Posted by .8down

No comment

i knew one of you terrorists would make a comment like that

[jcampbell]

Originally Posted by tkblazer

i dunno jeff, i rode a $30 hardtail frame for a while

Got me

[dstepper]

First off I must disclose that I am a total bike snob, owning two Niners and one Turner.

I break down people into two categories: People that ride mountain bikes…they are content to ride the same local park trails ride after ride. And mountain bikers: They live for the ride and invest much of their money and time into MTBing. To most they are a bore, because all they want to do is talk about trails and bikes.

I have more money tied up in bikes than in the car I drive, and would have it no other way. I am depressed unless I have a major bike road trip planned. I want a bike that when I start a 20 mile 5,000 foot decent down some remote mountain range in Utah or Arizona I can be assured my bike will make it in one piece. We ride technical trails with major exposures, if a bike breaks things could get very bad. My life is worth the best equipment I can afford. If my biking was a weekend warrior I would not feel the need to spend big money.