Hayes El Camino brakes

[Shu]

What is your opinion of these brakes

[2wheel_lee]

How do you plan on using them?

I have a set on an Intense VPX. It probably wasn't until the 5th or 6h ridet or so did they start working correctly. It wasn't a matter of the pads bedding in, they just did weird things, such as the lever going to the bar, or the lever "pumping up" on long descents. I didn't change a thing (such as a rebleed), and after a while they started working flawlessly. I haven't had a complaint about them at all. They seem to work fine for DH use.

Before everyone says they're junk, which I'm sure we'll see a couple of those posts, my Avid Juicy 7 brakes also did goofy stuff when they were new.

I've never had any problems with the Hayes Mags.

[PacMan]

I have heard they aren't that great, though I have no personal experience with them.

You can get Hayes HFX-9's for $80 a wheel w/ 6" rotors or $85 a wheel for 8" rotors from Blue Sky Cycling and save yourself $100. Is the lever adjust on the El Camino's worth $100?? It's not in my opinion, but only you can make that call for yourself.

I run Hayes 9's on two of my bikes and love them. They are basically the same brakes as the El Camino's, just without the lever/piston adjusts.

http://www.blueskycycling.com/produc...FX-9-XC-V6.htm

[BFloFoxRider.]

if its for dh use... spend the extra money on the avid CODES
those were on the brodie i demo'd this weekend and they were so sick

they worked really well too... no that you need stopping power for going dh fast thoguh?

[2wheel_lee]

Originally Posted by PacMan

I run Hayes 9's on two of my bikes and love them. They are basically the same brakes as the El Camino's, just without the lever/piston adjusts.

The only thing the 9s and the El Caminos share is fluid and the name. But you'll note that you won't see the Hayes name on the ECs, since Hayes outsourced them to another company.

[PacMan]

Originally Posted by 2wheel_lee

The only thing the 9s and the El Caminos share is fluid and the name. But you'll note that you won't see the Hayes name on the ECs, since Hayes outsourced them to another company.

If you say so.

[Shu]

Not for DH..mostly "AM" riding....they will be replacing the Avid 3's(TOTAL JUNK) that came on a ClDrnkr's Heckler....the HFX 9's sounds like a much better deal

[2wheel_lee]

Originally Posted by PacMan

If you say so.

It's not me who says so...

By Doug McClellan

APRIL 15, 2007 -- MEQUON, WI--Hayes has been a well-known cycling brand since it introduced its first mountain bike brake in 1993. The brand name is more than 60 years old, and Hayes brakes are found on vehicles ranging from Harley-Davidson motorcycles to Polaris snowmobiles to John Deere tractors.

So it seemed odd when Hayes unveiled a line of bicycle brakes at Taipei Cycle last month under an untested brand name, Stroker, or when the company decided to enlarge the model names on its other products but leave off the Hayes name and logo.

As it turns out, Hayes’ former business partner in Taiwan owns the Hayes brand name and trademarks and ordered Hayes to stop using them.
Hayes has filed suit in the United States and Taiwan, seeking the rights to the intellectual property and damages from its former partner. Until a legal resolution is reached, it will avoid using the Hayes name.

Cease and Desist. Hayes discovered only last year that it did not own the Hayes name or trademark in Taiwan, where it sources many of its products. The company had neglected to file its trademarks in Taiwan when it started doing business there some years ago.

Another company owns the trademarks, and Hayes was surprised when it discovered who: Muchachos International, the trading company that since 2001 had been Hayes’ partner in Taiwan. Muchachos was under contract with Hayes to manufacture some of its brake systems.

Hayes said Muchachos had registered the Hayes trademark on its own behalf with the Taiwan Intellectual Property Office in September 2004 without Hayes’ knowledge. Hayes said it did not learn of the trademark registration until last September, two years later.

Their business relationship disintegrated throughout 2006, but the nadir may have come in November when a Muchachos attorney told Hayes to “cease and desist” its use of the Hayes brand name. The lawyer said Muchachos, not Hayes, owned the Hayes logo, and also was the rightful owner of the Hayes-branded brake parts and components that it manufactured in Taiwan.

Three days before Christmas, Hayes filed suit against Muchachos in U.S. District Court for eastern Wisconsin, claiming its former supplier breached their contract, has infringed its trademarks, and is trying to usurp its business by selling Hayes products that were developed for the U.S. company. Hayes is seeking to recover at least $2 million in alleged specific losses plus punitive damages of at least $1 million.

Hayes filed a related case before the Taiwan Intellectual Property Office that seeks to invalidate Muchachos’ claim to the Hayes name.

In Taipei, Rhonda Kirkwood, vice president and general manager of Hayes Bicycle Group, confirmed that Hayes cannot now use the Hayes name on any products manufactured in Taiwan or in China—hence the new brand name and the emphasis on model names.

“Until the trademark suit is resolved by the court in Taiwan, products shipping from Taiwan will bear the product model names, which customers are already very familiar with,” Hayes said in a note to its customers.

Nothing Wrong. Neither side is willing to discuss the lawsuits, so most of the information comes from the complaint that Hayes filed with the U.S. District Court on Dec. 22, 2006.

Muchachos has not yet filed its official response to the Hayes lawsuit.

At Taipei Cycle, however, company president Linn Miles said that Muchachos has a compelling story to tell but that he is afraid any comments he makes could disrupt legal proceedings. “We don’t feel that we have done anything wrong,” he said.

Miles said Muchachos has worked with many leading brands in the bicycle industry for more than a decade and has established a good reputation.

Miles added, “We’ve been forced into a situation where we have to defend ourselves. There’s a lot of mudslinging here. We don’t want be part of it.”

In a later statement to the magazine, Miles said, “Muchachos lawfully and legitimately registered the subject trademark to protect its investments and interests in (among other territories) the territory of Taiwan.”

The statement said Muchachos has taken “defensive actions” to safeguard its reputation. “Muchachos . . . intends to defend any claims launched by HB Group and to recover the losses and damages suffered as a result of HB Group’s wrongful actions,” it said.

El Camino. Hayes and Muchachos began working together in 2001, when Muchachos agreed to manufacture the HMX-1 mechanical brake system for Hayes, according to the lawsuit.

In 2004, Muchachos agreed to manufacture the new El Camino brake. Hayes said it invested “well over” $1 million to develop and launch the El Camino, which it markets as its premier hydraulic brake system. But the El Camino apparently was the spark that ignited the problems between the companies.

Hayes claims in the lawsuit that Muchachos delivered only a “small number” of El Caminos in early 2006 and in May stopped shipments. Because Hayes was unable to fill orders for the El Camino, it suffered “substantial lost profits, ... lost opportunity costs as well as damage to its business, reputation and good will in the industry.” Hayes said it also lost its $1 million investment in the brake system.

Hayes claims that Miles began pressuring vendors and suppliers in December, saying that Muchachos was the only company permitted to ship Hayes products, using the Hayes brand name, in Taiwan, China or in other countries including Russia and Vietnam.

Kirkwood told Bicycle Retailer that she believed the Taiwan case was near a resolution. “We are committed to the bicycle industry in Taiwan and to our customers throughout the world and are confident that by following the appropriate legal channels we will achieve a positive resolution to this situation,” Kirkwood said.

[Shu]

I think PacMan was saying "If you say so" regarding ....

Originally Posted by 2wheel_lee

The only thing the 9s and the El Caminos share is fluid and the name.

No need to argue about this...thanks to both w/ your input

[guero]

shu, ive been happy with my hfx 9's on my dawg. i still need to throw on my 7" rotors, but so far they've been great with the 6". i dont think you can go wrong with them....save a little money also.

[denmother]

Originally Posted by Shu

Not for DH..mostly "AM" riding....they will be replacing the Avid 3's(TOTAL JUNK) that came on a ClDrnkr's Heckler....the HFX 9's sounds like a much better deal

I love my El Caminos (I have been riding Hayes brakes for 5 years). They are good for AM riding but not for DH (the fluid heats up too fast).

[Nagaredama]

Originally Posted by 2wheel_lee

The only thing the 9s and the El Caminos share is fluid and the name. But you'll note that you won't see the Hayes name on the ECs, since Hayes outsourced them to another company.

They actually let their trademark expire in Taiwan and can not legally produce the brakes with the Hayes branding there. This only effects the latest models.

Turner's are still marketed as Turners even though they don't build their own bikes same holds true for just about every other bike part.

[denmother]

Wheel World has the 6" on closeout for $164.99 per brake. So I guess $284 is a good price for a set.

http://wheelworld.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=3471

[biglimey]

Originally Posted by denmother

I love my El Caminos (I have been riding Hayes brakes for 5 years)

Just wait until you try the new Strokers...just got a set of the Stroker trails and they're sweeeet....

[roadkillross]

Originally Posted by BFloFoxRider.

if its for dh use... spend the extra money on the avid CODES
those were on the brodie i demo'd this weekend and they were so sick

they worked really well too... no that you need stopping power for going dh fast thoguh?

obviouy not for DH if their 180's. we allll now the codes rock dude.

[Innes]

Originally Posted by PacMan

I have heard they aren't that great, though I have no personal experience with them.

You can get Hayes HFX-9's for $80 a wheel w/ 6" rotors or $85 a wheel for 8" rotors from Blue Sky Cycling and save yourself $100. Is the lever adjust on the El Camino's worth $100?? It's not in my opinion, but only you can make that call for yourself.

I run Hayes 9's on two of my bikes and love them. They are basically the same brakes as the El Camino's, just without the lever/piston adjusts.

http://www.blueskycycling.com/produc...FX-9-XC-V6.htm

If you go with these, Jenson will price match them and if you link to Jenson through STR, you'll make money for the site.

[thephat]

The levers rattle in rough stuff, and they lack power.

I think there was a bitter falling out between Hayes and the factory that made the El Cominos.

At this time the only brake brands that I would run are Avid, Formula, and Shimano.

[biglimey]

Originally Posted by thephat

The levers rattle in rough stuff, and they lack power.

Yeah that was another reason that they completely dumped the El Camino's and went with the new radial design of the Strokers.

The other nice new brake system is the XT's with the servo wave system, got a set on my 6" bike and they stop my ass....