Next Question: Disc Brakes

[PacMan]

Originally Posted by allison

You might consider not going on about how they suck in the product description hahaha

Ya, probably not a good idea. But I can see it now: "I'm selling these XT's cuz they suck. I have since replaced them with a stick, which I jam into the spokes to slow down. The stick works better in my opinion."

[foofighter]

[project_d]

Originally Posted by foofighter

LOL thanks dude. Fack, i'm willing to spend the money spacers for bigger discs if i know they'll improve my brake fade issue

Yes, it will. The larger brakes will give you better modulation by being less likely to lock up. Therefore, you will have better control while braking. Larger discs will also help to disapate (sp?) heat, which will in turn heat your brake line oil at a slower rate, helping to both maintain a higher level of braking power, as well as a greater length of time before you would have to bleed your brakes again.

However, there might be something wrong with the master cylinder, so you might want to bring that up as well. Keep us posted!

[Neccros]

Only downside to going to a larger rotor from a 6" is the possibility of over stressing the fork and possibly snapping the drop outs or the brake mount.... unless your running a 20mm front axle, I wouldnt recommend it... Specialized started to sell the older 5" travel Enduros with 8" rotors and ended up recalling them and going to a 6" on the QR forks....
Get your brakes flushed and bled like recommended here and also maybe get the rotor cleaned since it might be glazed and also might consider a pad replacement...

just my $.002... take it or leave it...

[foofighter]

Ok, here's my thought process. I think i use the front brakes TOO much. So I end up using the rear brakes to do the drag braking just to keep things at a pace that I can handle. This in turn cases the fading. My thought is, to go w/ an 8" in the rear so that it'll help me w/ with control my descent without making my front shocks compress which is bad as i would loose some of that travel that i so need.

Good idea? Bad idea?

[project_d]

Originally Posted by foofighter

Ok, here's my thought process. I think i use the front brakes TOO much. So I end up using the rear brakes to do the drag braking just to keep things at a pace that I can handle. This in turn cases the fading. My thought is, to go w/ an 8" in the rear so that it'll help me w/ with control my descent without making my front shocks compress which is bad as i would loose some of that travel that i so need.

Good idea? Bad idea?

I would say bad. You get more of your stopping power from the front brake than you do the rear. I understand what you're saying about compressing the travel up front, but if you can't get the stopping power or modulation you need, then travel won't really matter cuz you'll be out of control.

[Flat Broke]

Everyone is going to ride with a slightly different braking technique. Even the terrain you ride will dictate how you distribute the braking force used on your bike. If you have bad breaking habits and tend to drag the brakes rather than use them in pulses or bursts, that is something that will cause problems with any setup if you get on a long enough or steep enough section. So the first thing you need to do is work on being able to use the brakes more effectively. Unfortunately this can become a catch 22. If your brakes suck, you have to stay on them longer to slow you down. The longer you stay on them, the quicker they fade. Even with good technique this can get to be problematic.

I don't know about your particular brakes as I've never had a pair, but I have read and heard there were good versions of the XT 4 pots, and bad versions. It could be you have one of the later. Go back and talk to the guys at the Path. I'm sure they'll have some input and options for you. Another thing to consider is that a bleed isn't always the same as a bleed a flush. If the fluid didn't produce bubbles, then it's bled. But if you didn't cycle all new fluid through, you still have older fluid in the system which may need to be replaced. Double check and make sure they got flushed all the way out as old/contaminated fluid will definitely hinder your braking performance.

I totally understand the budget issue, so you might want to think about the following before pulling the trigger on onesey twosey upgrades. While you can still get adapters to run larger rotors with those IS type calipers, the adapters cost more than std 74mm adapters and may be harder to find(you can usually score em on ebay). I know the Shimano IS caliper front 203mm adapter is a pricey piece if you have to pay retail for it. So if you buy a bigger rotor and the adapter for your current caliper, only to find out that the brakes still don't have the power you want/need; you're stuck with an adapter that you can't re-use and still need to find a way to get more power to the pads...

I know for all of the Shimano dual piston calipers whether they be Saints, Deores, XTs etc; they can all use the same lever/master cylinder. This may have changed with the new design MC that you see on the XTR stuff, but for the past couple years you could run a Deore lever with Saint calipers, etc. Ask the guys at the Path if your levers/MC are compatible with the current crop of dual piston calipers. If so, you can pick up NIB Deore, XT, and sometimes even Hone or Saint calipers on clearance for cheap. Then you'll have a 74mm mounting platform that has more readily available adapters etc, and if the caliper of your current setup is the known problem, you should have fixed the issue without having to buy a whole new set of brakes. FWIW, you can probably find a new set of dual piston calipers (assuming they'll work with your existing MC/levers) for the same or less than you'd pay for that front Shimano adapter and a new rotor.

If you end up going shopping for a new set of brakes, I can honestly say, I'm much happier with my cheapo Shimano Deores than my Hayes 9s. The Hayes felt crisper (not nesscesarily stronger), but the overall build quality left something to be desired, and my Shimano's worked awesome up in Mammoth this weekend. I was able to single finger most of time and that was with the crappy resin pads(though I did need to swap a set of rear pads half way through the day), an 8" up front, and a 7" in the rear. I would definitely buy the 8" rear though if I were going to buy an adapter/rotor combo again.

There are more bling brakes out there, and I'm sure the Codes and Forumlas etc are worth the extra $$ at some point, but if a cheap set of Deores could keep my fat ass in check up in Mammoth, they can't be all bad.

Double check your bleed, make sure all the fluid was flushed/replaced with new. Make sure the rotor and pads aren't glazed (you can break that with sandpaper yourself), and if things still don't work, then start looking at equipment upgrades.

I almost forgot; Shimano makes two pad formulations, a resin pad, and a sintered metallic pad. The later of the two has more bite but also holds heat. I got away with using the rein pads this weekend, but will be buying sintered pads for my next replacement set.

Sorry for the longish post. Good luck with it, and let us know how it all works out.

Chris

[2wheel_lee]

Originally Posted by Neccros

Specialized started to sell the older 5" travel Enduros with 8" rotors and ended up recalling them and going to a 6" on the QR forks....

I wondered how Specialized was getting away with 8" rotors on QR forks...I guess they weren't getting away with it very well!

Somewhat repeating what other said, thoroughly clean the rotors with rubbing alcohol, and then install new pads. I'm not hip on what the best pads are, but the ones from EBC (green or red?) have been known to be very good pads for those brakes. Keep in mind that it may take a few rides for the new pads to wear themselves to the rotors.

[foofighter]

thanks chris for the insight...i know that a part of the brake fade is user error/induced because i'm not completely 100% comfortable going FAST i try to pulse my brakes as opposed to dragging them so it'll be something i'll work on. I think i'll do a completely flush and bleed when i get a chance. I did noticed that my brakes were howling and took some fine grit sandpaper to it and it did fix the problem...i think i'll be trying a different set of pads to experiment with.

[spookydave]

Originally Posted by 2wheel_lee

I wondered how Specialized was getting away with 8" rotors on QR forks...I guess they weren't getting away with it very well!

Before Fox was putting 8" rotors on QR forks you couldn't buy the 8" adapters. I made tons of them and I know lots of big guys that used them. Never a problem that I ever heard of.