Brake Modulation?

[SDstumpy]

What exactly is Brake Modulation? I have Avid Juicy 5's and I think the only adjustment I have is lever reach. Does lever reach also correlate to how much I have to pull before it engages the pads? Also, my brakes feel a bit mushy, meaning the levers don't spring back out very well. I just replaced the pads and the spider spring and bled the brakes. I wish the juicy's had a better feel. Is this how they are or is there an adjustment I can make.

[cjwally]

Modulation is the ability to exercise precise control over your brakes.... It isn't necessarily an adjustment.

[dubjay]

If your brakes had zero modulation, they would lock instantly when you pull the lever.

That being said, brakes with good modulation allows for varying levels of grab, allowing you precise control over braking power.

It's not exactly something you can adjust. Some brake systems just inherently have better modulation than others, although some brake pads may offer better modulation because they don't lock up as easy.

[Knuckledragger]

Learn it.... Live it.....

Love,

C.K.

[Allrotor13b]

If your brakes feel mushy and your levers don't recoil, and you have already bled the system, then the seal on the piston in the master cylinder may need replacement. If that is the case, you're better off upgrading to better brakes anyway.

[SDstumpy]

thanks guys, yeah maybe I need to upgrade my brakes

[Winger]

Ride a bike with rim brakes for 2 weeks and you'll be amazed at the Juicy 5's modulation.

[pastamon]

Juicy 5 has plenty of modulation and control over the power and wheel lockup.

Sounds to me like someone put his greasy hands on the rotor and/or pads. Sounds to me like contaminated pads are the problem and a dirty rotor ain't helping.

But that's just a guess.

I would disagree with Allrotor13b's comment. If he had a blown seal on the master cylinder piston it wouldn't be time for a new brake setup. Those seals are easy to replace and they cost about 1/50th (or less) of a new brake setup.

[dubjay]

Originally Posted by pastamon

I would disagree with Allrotor13b's comment. If he had a blown seal on the master cylinder piston it wouldn't be time for a new brake setup. Those seals are easy to replace and they cost about 1/50th (or less) of a new brake setup.

He's just used to those Wankel engines blowing - replacing seals on those are $$$.

Sorry..couldn't resist!

[pastamon]

Originally Posted by dubjay

He's just used to those Wankel engines blowing

That explains things a bit! I still remember the old Mazda commercial that said "piston engines go doo-whacka-doo-whacka-doo, but the Mazda goes hmmmmmmm." I remember the 1st gen RX-7 that had the fishbowl-like glass around the cockpit/cabin.

[SDstumpy]

Originally Posted by pastamon

Juicy 5 has plenty of modulation and control over the power and wheel lockup.

Sounds to me like someone put his greasy hands on the rotor and/or pads. Sounds to me like contaminated pads are the problem and a dirty rotor ain't helping.

But that's just a guess.

I would disagree with Allrotor13b's comment. If he had a blown seal on the master cylinder piston it wouldn't be time for a new brake setup. Those seals are easy to replace and they cost about 1/50th (or less) of a new brake setup.

Pads are brand new and I cleaned the rotors with Brake Parts cleaner (the kind used on car brake parts). I was very careful not to get any contaminants on the brake pads or rotor. The brakes work fine, they just don't feel as nice as some brakes I've felt on new bikes...XT's namely.

[pastamon]

Originally Posted by SDstumpy

Pads are brand new and I cleaned the rotors with Brake Parts cleaner (the kind used on car brake parts). I was very careful not to get any contaminants on the brake pads or rotor. The brakes work fine, they just don't feel as nice as some brakes I've felt on new bikes...XT's namely.

I swear, there's a lot of inferiority to be found in what you have if you want to get something new.

I don't know how you would say that the Shimano XT hydro feels better than the Juicy 5. How are you comparing them? Full rides on steep, tough terrain? Lever pull in a bike shop?

Does upgradeitis ever go away?

I think your tagline tells the story here -- you feel the Juicy 5 is "low end" and you want to get rid of it. If that's the case why did you start this thread, if you're just looking for an excuse to "upgrade" you don't need this thread. Are you trying to offer "proof" to your girlfriend, fiancee or wife? What's the deal?

[Kritter]

New bikes always feel better wether its brakes, shifting, rolling, etc...its like a new girl.

[ubermensch]

Originally Posted by SDstumpy

I wish the juicy's had a better feel. Is this how they are or is there an adjustment I can make.

IMO, the bore and stroke of the plunger inside the master cylinder, along with the orientation of how force is applied to that plunger by the lever has most to do with how a braking system feels. Aside from buying a new master, those things you can't change.

The only options I can think of for you is to either change brake pads, or somehow rule out the possibility that it's the way you are bleeding your brakes. If you ride other bikes with juicy 5s and they feel the same as yours, then it's probably just the brakes themselves.

[chongoblanco]

DID you bleed your brakes yourself? or did you have a shop do it? They could not have been bled right.

How old are your juicy's sometimes you need to change your fluid due to what they call boiling the fluid.

juicy 7's are the same as juicy 5's if you are looking to upgrade, the only difference is that the 7's have a pad contact adjustment knob which helps with modulation.

Depending on your budget for upgrades, brakes with multiple pistons are going to give you tons of modulation.

2 piston with a mono block caliper will work and modulate better than a 2 piece caliper, example: jumping from juicy 7's, to juicy ultimates.

after that your lurking over to the more freeride/downhill brakes such as 4&6 piston brakes with large diameter rotors.

for A.m and everyday trail use I would recomend a dual piston with a mono/ 1 piece caliper! you will be amazed with the preformance increase.

cheers

[supralight]

i've got some j5's and i need some new seals on the lever bleed screws. can i get those at a lbs or do i need to contact avid?

[chongoblanco]

Originally Posted by supralight

i've got some j5's and i need some new seals on the lever bleed screws. can i get those at a lbs or do i need to contact avid?

All they are is a tiny o-ring a shop can probably contact avid for some replacements, to save some time shoot them an e-mail to see if they know what size and type it is and cruz over to a hydraulics or industrial harware supply like Mcfaddendale hardware or Anderson Hydraulics in orange.

Just a thought.

[RS VR6]

Originally Posted by pastamon

I swear, there's a lot of inferiority to be found in what you have if you want to get something new.

Man...that's one of the true-est things I've read in quite some time!

[SDstumpy]

Originally Posted by pastamon

I swear, there's a lot of inferiority to be found in what you have if you want to get something new.

Can't argue with that.

Originally Posted by pastamon

I don't know how you would say that the Shimano XT hydro feels better than the Juicy 5. How are you comparing them? Full rides on steep, tough terrain? Lever pull in a bike shop?.

just comparing lever pull. just doesn't feel the same since changing the brake pads. A bit mushy

Originally Posted by pastamon

I think your tagline tells the story here -- you feel the Juicy 5 is "low end" and you want to get rid of it. If that's the case why did you start this thread, if you're just looking for an excuse to "upgrade" you don't need this thread. Are you trying to offer "proof" to your girlfriend, fiancee or wife? What's the deal?

No, but that is a good idea next time I do need proof that I need a new bike.
Wanted to know what modulation meant and whether it was an adjustment I can make. Sounds like I just need to try bleeding them again.