Rims w/o Eyelets - as strong? lighter.....

[Chewyeti]

Hey you smart people!

so i was talking to a few bike mechanics about a future 29'' wheel build, and they reccomended against wheels that did not use eyelets. (AFAIK.... stans hoops do not use eyelets).

are lack of eyelets a problem? So the nipple drops directly into the rim? Does this make a rim wear out in those areas faster than if it had eyelets?

eyelets are essentially a replaceable washer/wear surface for spoke nipple/rim interaction.

Your thoughts?

[2wheel_lee]

I sure wouldn't want wheels that didn't have eyelets. I've repaired many wheels where the nipples were pulling through the rim. Actually, it's only a short term repair of using washers under the nipples. Generally speaking, only low quality rims don't use eyelets.

The problem is that under high spoke tension, the nipple, which is somewhat wedge shaped, pulls through the hole in the rim. The brass or steel eyelet prevents this. However, before there is a complete failure, as the nipple starts to pull through, the spoke tension goes down, increasing stresses on the spokes (riding with loose spokes), which results in broken spokes. And then as the spokes are brought up to tension, the nipples further wedge themselves through the rim. All in all, just stay away from cheap rims that don't have eyelets, unless you want a set of lightweight rims that have a shorter life expectancy.

[autoduel]

It is a problem if you are hard on wheels. Eyeletted rims are stronger and less prone to cracking around the nipple and pull through. The eyelet (which is stainless steel) viewed from inside the rim spreads the load out to a considerably larger area. I myself have never had a problem and will continue to use non-eyeletted rims. Just like any other bike part, it's good to check for cracks periodically.

[Chewyeti]

well thanks guys!

I was set on using the stans flow rims... but i believe they are a non eyelet design. Im not nice to rims... (235lbs) and i want something to be bulletproof.

[Bert]

When I had my Stans wheelset built, I was told to go with brass nipples instead of alloy nipples to help strengthen the rim. I am very abusive when it comes to wheels and so far the Stans Arch wheels have been solid.

bert

[DeeZee]

Originally Posted by Bert

When I had my Stans wheelset built, I was told to go with brass nipples instead of alloy nipples to help strengthen the rim. I am very abusive when it comes to wheels and so far the Stans Arch wheels have been solid.

bert

I have been using Stan's rims before they were available to the public (tested 4 of the first 40 Olympic rims).

You have seen what I do to wheels

Never had a problem or ever heard of anyone pulling a spoke out of Stan's rim

[dstepper]

Originally Posted by DeeZee

I have been using Stan's rims before they were available to the public (tested 4 of the first 40 Olympic rims).

You have seen what I do to wheels

Never had a problem or ever heard of anyone pulling a spoke out of Stan's rim

How long has Stan's been selling rims?

Dean

[kanga]

The first I saw Stan's rims was at Interbike two years ago. The year before that, they hinted that they were working on a new rim set. They were in the booth next to Bionicon.

Hans, El Presidente is using the Stan's rims and really likes them. He hasn't had a problem, and isn't easy on equipment.

I'm using Cole wheels, a carbon wheelset with no eyelets, and before that a set of Spinergy wheels that don't have eyelets either, but their carbon fiber spokes use a special nipple that has a larger flange. They held up well too.

It's all in the design, and riding and treating the rims within their design limits. If it's an XC race wheel without eyelets, I wouldn't do anything but an XC race on them, etc.

[2wheel_lee]

By the way, the guys I've seen with problems with nipples pulling through rims weren't necessarily the guys beating on them, it was mostly the guys who simply put on lots of miles. As mentioned, high spoke tension is what kills rims without eyelets. High spoke tension kills the non-eyeletted rims, and low spoke tension kills spokes - take your pick. Compromise, and nothing lasts!

[Chewyeti]

so you can use nipples on a stans rim?

[DeeZee]

Originally Posted by dstepper

How long has Stan's been selling rims?

Dean

[2wheel_lee]

5 or 6 years, huh? And no one managed to do a review on any of their rims on mtbr until 2005?
http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/manufacturers/8447/

Also noted while glancing through the reviews is that many people claimed that their wheels frequently went out of true. This very well could be a result of the nipples starting to pull through the rims.

[RacinJason]

Lee is right on with his wheel theory. I have cracked through eyelets many times. I will take the weight penalty with the eyelets any day over the non eyeleted wheels that will wear and crack. I'm not really hard on wheels either.

[DeeZee]

Originally Posted by 2wheel_lee

5 or 6 years, huh? And no one managed to do a review on any of their rims on mtbr until 2005?
http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/manufacturers/8447/

Also noted while glancing through the reviews is that many people claimed that their wheels frequently went out of true. This very well could be a result of the nipples starting to pull through the rims.

29'ers came out in Fall 2004. 26" in 2003 (duno)

The Olympics would come out of true. They were light.......I mean really light for 29'er rim. The protypes I had were 404g. On my SS no issues........on the geared FS bike they needed to be trued more than once. However I blame this more on the wheel builder (spokes coming loose)

However the Flow's and Arches have been great and IMO curently "the standard" for 29'er rims

[thephat]

The rims that don't have eyelets tend to be thicker material where the eyelet would be. Interestingly, I have not seen the cracks around spoke wholes on rims without eyelets as much as on rims with eyelets.

I have been told by a few smart folks that the thicker rim wall without the eyelets is actaully stronger and less prone to pulling through/cracking at the spoke whole, and at a lower weight. I have always felt that the main purpose of the eyelet is to prevent galling between the nipple and rim, and make the nipple easier to turn. I like eyeleted rims, but I don't think the concerns about cracked rims are necesarily legit.

I also do not see brass nipples making any rim with or withour eyelets stronger. The only thing brass nipples will help with is nipple failure, and nipple rounding.

[FoShizzle]

Originally Posted by dstepper

How long has Stan's been selling rims?

Dean

dont forget how old he is Dean