Day of Silence and More discussion

[CPATCRASH]

Originally Posted by DeeZee

You have hurt my feelings a few times!

Oh geez! Are we getting sensitive?

[Edog]

I think having a clear mission statement & posting guidelines would help. Whilst not wanting to debate eliteism, I think it would be cool to expect members to attend at least 3 rides / events a year. I mean I could live in Poland sign up just to give californians a bunch of crap.

I think we need a No Thanks button, it's great people being thanked all the time, but I have no problem ear marking the wankers, 100 No Thanks in a month your out. If thats me fair enough.

I've noticed Empty Beer Can has been a little better these days, I wonder where everybody went

[LBmtb]

Originally Posted by Edog

I think we need a No Thanks button, it's great people being thanked all the time, but I have no problem ear marking the wankers, 100 No Thanks in a month your out. If thats me fair enough.

Actually thought about that too. Maybe flag top 5 in a month or so for manual review

Thanks for all the input. It's cool seeing the topic brought to light and discussed.

[ChipsandSalsa]

Originally Posted by LBmtb

Solo and chips - I think you two are missing what this is supposed to be about. Maybe you're only reading everybody else's response without reading the announcement. If anything this is an anti-elitism thing because it's an anti-drama move. It's a chance for everyone to catch their breath, stop taking STR for granted, and to remember what this community is all about.

If you're getting so upset because you feel that people who support STR get preferential treatment on STR (what a crazy idea!) then I'll change it a bit - it'll be for a small chunk of a day and will go for everyone.

I am not at all upset, I am just giving you feedback. I read your announcement a few times, and while I agree wholeheartedly with your goal of cleaning-up the website, it was your methodology I questioned.

Anytime you bring a large group of people together, there is bound to be disagreement.
It's your website, your game, your rules. But if I did not give you my honest feedback before you took action, I would be disingenuous.

[2wheel_lee]

Originally Posted by CPATCRASH

I admit it! I am guilty of tossing a cup of gasoline on the fire from time to time. Then I just sit back and keep warm. Sorry!

And I do the same thing...except I occasionally hose the fire off with fuel (especially "illegal" trail threads).

I don't mind when some of my posts are deleted. I'm surprised that more aren't deleted. I know damned well that some of my posts are downright stupid, and others really piss people off. I'd like to think that my contributions outweigh the negatives (although that's a questionable tradeoff - Nails in the Fence).

George and the moderator team have a very tough job determining what should stay and what should go. Anything that goes is essentially setting precedence. And I'm sure they get a lot of flames "well, you let that go, why did you delete my stuff?" I'm thankful for all those who are tasked with moderating. And they're not just moderators, they're riders and they're our friends, so I understand it is often tough for them to hit the delete button.

I've participated on many message boards over the years (mtb and other subjects), and this is clearly the best one I've been involved with. If you think this site is strict, I can give many examples of some of the bad/strict tactics others employ.

I don't understand the day of silence like many of you, but that's ok, I'll survive (maybe?). It's George's call, and we'll all be fine with his decisions. Has he let anyone down in the past?

Side story, but could be directed to people who aren't having a good time here:
I used to be the technical director at many national and world championship jet ski racing events. It's really a fun sport, and the events are even more fun to particpate in. However, for one reason or another, I was the guy to go to with complaints. Some people would whine and complain to no end. Sometimes it would be the same person repeatedly whining. So here's what I'd say, "This is a fun sport/event/race, and it looks like you're not having fun. Perhaps you should be doing something else that will be more fun for you."

[Solo]

Originally Posted by LBmtb

Really? In may . . . the top five people with most thanks all are subscribers ("doohickey") and only 3 in the top 10 aren't.

http://www.socaltrailriders.org/top-thanks.php

Solo and chips - I think you two are missing what this is supposed to be about. Maybe you're only reading everybody else's response without reading the announcement. If anything this is an anti-elitism thing because it's an anti-drama move. It's a chance for everyone to catch their breath, stop taking STR for granted, and to remember what this community is all about.

If you're getting so upset because you feel that people who support STR get preferential treatment on STR (what a crazy idea!) then I'll change it a bit - it'll be for a small chunk of a day and will go for everyone.

Really? Yes, really.

- I really like this site and forums.
- I really like (most of) the people who post here. They are what makes this site special and the reason people come here.
- I really think the mods have a tough job to do, are under appreciated, and are going to take heat for whatever they do.
- I really think everyone here needs to abide by the same rules and punished accordingly if they don't.
- I really expect subscribers to be ambassadors to this site, help self police it, and receive addittional benefits for doing so.
- I'm really missing the point of throwing the "non-supporters" into the same bucket as the original offenders (supporters and non supporters alike) who pushed you into taking this action.

[drclark]

I'm a relatively new member around here (only joined last Nov). For what its worth, I didn't realize there was a problem here. Compared to other boards I read regularly, this place is pretty boring if you're looking for a flame war. (this thread has more drama in it than I've read all month on the boards) Maybe I have a knack for not reading the offensive threads (or that I stay out of marketplace pretty much) or I tend to not take things written in message forums too seriously... its just the internet after all. My tiny little opinion is deal with the offenders as individuals. If an individual is guilty of stirring up the pot too much, warn them via PM and then ban them if they continue. That generally works on other message boards that I participate in.

I didn't know what a doohickey is, and that you received one for sending $$ to the board's owner, until this thread. I can completely be enthusiastic about financial contributors getting "functionality" perks like fewer ads, more pm box space, more picture space, and even maybe a private subforum if they want. However, I think it is a very bad idea to blur the "discipline" line for paying vs non-paying members. All board members should be subject to the same expectations on behavior, and consequences for breaking the rules, regardless of doohickey status.

Even if the doohickey members are GENERALLY well behaved, there are probably past examples of at least one or two paying members causing/contributing to a problem thread. Exempting the doohickey members from the "day of silence" is more likely to dilute the intentions of "cleaning up the board" and could be mis-interpreted by the vast majority of non-paying but well behaved members as pay-to-play is expected. If you're really set on the idea of a "day of silence" then just shut the whole site down to everybody for a day with a message stating the reason for the shut down.

However, these are just my opinions, and this is YOUR site.

drc

[Red Hot Sloth]

But what about March?
I'm not a fan of blanket punishment. I think it should be more judicial as to the offenders. I don't directly contribute monetarily to the site, but I think indirectly with a giant white sticker on the back window of my truck does more than paying $40 bucks a year.
As I had posted the other evening concerning my reasons for not posting much on here lately will be the same reason I remove said sticker.
Sure the sight is cool, and generally low key, but at the same time I'm not into the marshal governing you may choose to invoke.
Thanks for allowing me to be a part of your group, but no thanks if you truely believe this is the only possible answer to releive such issues. I believe you will and have alienated many by simply stating your plans. I know, this is YOUR site, if I don't like it I can leave, this has been made apparent several times. Just another persons opinions and views. I indeed feel you will be doing more harm than good.

Originally Posted by LBmtb

Really? In may . . . the top five people with most thanks all are subscribers ("doohickey") and only 3 in the top 10 aren't.

[dirtvert]

i'm all for (a couple of) the moderators having a day/week/month of silence.

as for doohickeyness, what if people can earn them by leading a certain number of trips per year. after all, it's the leaders that really make things happen.

[BrewMaster]

I think asking, "Would I say what I am about to post if we were standing face to face?" is the best advice. When we live by that standard, we treat each other like real people and friends, not mystery screen names.

Do what you gotta do George.

I'd be sad to see you go Pete, but I am sure you and I would ride together with or without STR, even though I did meet you at the Sladnas Daley ride. Come to think of it, that event was what signifies STR for me more than a few people bitching at each other.

Happy trails my friends.

[Burner]

I really didn't want to post to this thread but... damn.

Folks- you all need to relax and have a bit of perspective. This debate is going on as if the world was ending, we're talking about a 1-day gesture to get people to think, we'll all survive. We are talking about a mountain bike website. This is all something we are passionate about, but we're still just talking about riding bikes for recreation/fitness/competition/friends=FUN. We aren't debating the fundamentals of democracy.

George is only human, he's just trying to come up with a solution to a growing problem, that gets people thinking before spewing on the site... cut the guy some slack. This isn't his livelihood, he created this site out of his own passion for the sport, and it has developed into a great community much beyond all expectations. Now, with that comes a large burden of management. I wouldn't want to have to deal with it and some of the personalities on here. Frankly, I think he handles it with class.

So again, this is not a punishment, it's just something to provoke thought and consideration.... not that big of a deal. let's all chill out and get back to riding and talking bikes n' isht.


kudos gouge and thank you


PS- The whole doohickey/elitism sub-debate is especially retarded, I've never seen any evidence of that.... Except that I refuse to ride with any non-doohickey-holders, I am better than you all and I know it, plus you smell. If I speak kindly to you, or even acknowledge your existence, consider yourself graced.

Seriously, does anyone even notice who or who doesn't have a doohickey, and who the F cares?? I am an equal opportunity offender.

[Rockinthecasbah]

Does a day of silence accomplish by punishing the people on this board who tend to get out of control?

NO .. all this does is create a noticible indifference between the people who can afford the 40 and who cannot

Do i think a day of silence, to give the mods a day off in respect is good?

yes. it would fine with me to show the mods respect by giving them some time off... maybe not kill the whole site but just lock the posting of anything for a day and shut it down for everyone, doohickeys or not!

Turning the site off as a form of punishment does nothing, punishment as a training aid does not work. Reward systems work, like showing some kind of acknowledgment to the people who really contribute to our community.

This was not the first MTB board and it wont be the last, if it gets to the point where people feel alienated by financial means they will go somewhere else, or create there own board.

Lets just ride are bikes, ps when the day of silence comes lets setup a ride we dont need a site to ride together

[Impy]

I went out of town & missed all the the flaming threads, so I'm not sure what happened. Ironically I was at an MTBR gathering and was telling the NocCal MTBR people about how cool STR is & how little flaming goes on here.

I am glad I saw this thread though, I didn't even know about support and the doo-hickey, and I am 100% in support of this site. I think the day of silence is a good "reset" for people.

Finally moderating is really hard, I know first hand. You can never please everyone and sometimes people can be really rough on you. Kudos to the mods here, and of course to George.

Originally Posted by Edog

I've noticed Empty Beer Can has been a little better these days, I wonder where everybody went

I think it must be the top notch moderating!

By the way edog I really like your no thanks button idea. There have been a few times I have wanted to hit such a button.

[mottmcfly]

Not in response to anything going on with this thread but I think Rockinthecasbah's idea of giving the Mods a day off is a good one. I'm not being sarcastic I think they deserve it and I would be happy to just read all the posts I've missed or get caught up on my knitting.

[Frozen208]

Originally Posted by Rockinthecasbah

Does a day of silence accomplish by punishing the people on this board who tend to get out of control?

NO .. all this does is create a noticible indifference between the people who can afford the 40 and who cannot

Do i think a day of silence, to give the mods a day off in respect is good?

yes. it would fine with me to show the mods respect by giving them some time off... maybe not kill the whole site but just lock the posting of anything for a day and shut it down for everyone, doohickeys or not!

Turning the site off as a form of punishment does nothing, punishment as a training aid does not work. Reward systems work, like showing some kind of acknowledgment to the people who really contribute to our community.

This was not the first MTB board and it wont be the last, if it gets to the point where people feel alienated by financial means they will go somewhere else, or create there own board.

Lets just ride are bikes, ps when the day of silence comes lets setup a ride we dont need a site to ride together

I don't know how the George and the Mods feel about this, but I think a "Day of Thanks" would be more appropriate because we have good thing here. If it werent for STR, I might not have stuck with the whole MTBing thing, I might have moved on to something else so thank you STR. A whole day where the Mods don't have to worry about modding, while giving the whole board a day to reflect/reset I think might be good.