NMBS #2 Firestone Walker Santa Ynez Valley Classic

[allison]

Originally Posted by Upchuck

Well once again, Mike Hecker has managed to "shake things up" right before a race. All Sport classes have been reduced to one lap. Our start time is 8am. We would've been off the course before the high point of the temps. If he's that concerned, why not put two more water stations on the course?
Pretty pathetic for a National race.

Wait, what??

How are they letting people know about that?

Seriously? 11 miles? I'm paying $45 for that?!

It's gonna be hot either way.

[Upchuck]

Originally Posted by allison

Wait, what??

How are they letting people know about that?

Seriously? 11 miles? I'm paying $45 for that?!

It's gonna be hot either way.

Announcement was just made on the RideSB.com website.

[allison]

Originally Posted by Upchuck

Announcement was just made on the RideSB.com website.

I'd send a complaint email, but he never responded to my valid question email, so why bother?



I'm wearing my "I now have only good days and great days" 10//2 shirt, so instead of being too upset about it I'll just say either way it's a national level race and will give me a chance to explore a shorter race than I'm used to, race in the heat... and any race experience is better than none.

Better than sitting around doing nothing and more USAC points

Good luck to everyone else this weekend also.

[jbiron]

The problem is that the course in too long at 11+ miles. One lap is too short, two laps is too long, especially with the amount of climbing per lap. They should cut it down to 7-8 mi. Last year they had a 14 mi course and USAC made them shorten all the races using quarter/half/three quarter laps. That led to all the confusion.

I'm just I don't have to do three laps, 34 mile with almost 6000 ft of elevation gain. I'm trying to make the jump from sport to expert and these long early season races: Bonelli (27mi), Sea Otter (39!mi) are killing me.

[allison]

Originally Posted by jbiron

The problem is that the course in too long at 11+ miles. One lap is too short, two laps is too long, especially with the amount of climbing per lap. They should cut it down to 7-8 mi. Last year they had a 14 mi course and USAC made them shorten all the races using quarter/half/three quarter laps. That led to all the confusion.

I'm just I don't have to do three laps, 34 mile with almost 6000 ft of elevation gain. I'm trying to make the jump from sport to expert and these long early season races: Bonelli (27mi), Sea Otter (39!mi) are killing me.

I also thought it seemed like a pretty long course. It would've been my longest Sport XC race to date.

I was looking forward to trying it, though, especially to see how I did with the longer laps. It'd be simliar length and climbing to Fontana at Expert level.

Only slightly longer than Idyllwild Spring Challenge and Sea Otter for sport (18.9 ~ for both, and I think over 3k climbing).

[carbonman]

In a way I'm kind of happy that the tandems were cut from 2 laps down to 1. This will be our first tandem race and I wasn't to sure how things would go. I thought we would just cruise since we were doing 2 laps. Now that we are doing 1 lap I think we can go at more of a race speed.

[Upchuck]

Originally Posted by jbiron

The problem is that the course in too long at 11+ miles. One lap is too short, two laps is too long, especially with the amount of climbing per lap. They should cut it down to 7-8 mi. Last year they had a 14 mi course and USAC made them shorten all the races using quarter/half/three quarter laps. That led to all the confusion.

I'm just I don't have to do three laps, 34 mile with almost 6000 ft of elevation gain. I'm trying to make the jump from sport to expert and these long early season races: Bonelli (27mi), Sea Otter (39!mi) are killing me.

I disagree. Considering how the course isn't technically challenging, I think the distance and elevation is appropriate for Sport. If Sport races were 15 miles long , the jump to Expert would be disproportionate.

[allison]

Originally Posted by Upchuck

I disagree. Considering how the course isn't technically challenging, I think the distance and elevation is appropriate for Sport. If Sport races were 15 miles long , the jump to Expert would be disproportionate.

That's the point. Sport races locally (for me, anyway) have been the following: 15.42 (Bonelli last Oct), 13.38 (Mt. SAC), 13.76 (Southridge), 14.03 (SRC), 16.56 (Keyesville Classic), 18.92 (Sea Otter), 18.77 (Idyllwild Spring Challenge).

So, for the most part.. the mileage is quite a jump.

Not arguing anything, just stating typical Sport distances from my experience from October to present.

FWIW, 12/24 hour course loops are typically around 9 miles and 1100-1300ft of climbing (Hurkey Creek, Vail Lake).

[Upchuck]

Originally Posted by allison

That's the point. Sport races locally (for me, anyway) have been the following: 15.42 (Bonelli last Oct), 13.38 (Mt. SAC), 13.76 (Southridge), 14.03 (SRC), 16.56 (Keyesville Classic), 18.92 (Sea Otter), 18.77 (Idyllwild Spring Challenge).

So, for the most part.. the mileage is quite a jump.

Not arguing anything, just stating typical Sport distances from my experience from October to present.

FWIW, 12/24 hour course loops are typically around 9 miles and 1100-1300ft of climbing (Hurkey Creek, Vail Lake).

No worries, Allison. I don't feel like we're arguing. Just discussing a common concern.

I agree about the jump in distance. But I've always found the Firestone course a "roadie's course". In other words- no technical aspect. Just a fast, rolling course with no sustained, steep climbing.

Bonelli is much more challenging (IMO) with the length and grade of the climbs. Not to mention climbing the "corkscrew" each lap.

Fontana isn't that long, but it's technically more demanding on the body.

Keyesville has always been one of the easier courses. A great race for either beginners or someone who wants to step up to the next category.

Idyllwild is at a higher altitude and is more technically demanding.

Vail Lake has a lot more technical riding and the climbs are more demanding. The mileage and elevation per lap isn't too bad, but what about the people who are doing multiple laps? Racing from 9am-9pm with several hours of high temps is a lot worse than a couple extra miles per lap.

Again, only my humble opinion...but I'm right.

[sdyeti]

Not when you've had to race it as the last event in the All Mountain stage race!

Originally Posted by Upchuck

Keyesville has always been one of the easier courses. A great race for either beginners or someone who wants to step up to the next category.

[Upchuck]

Originally Posted by sdyeti

Not when you've had to race it as the last event in the All Mountain stage race!

Ah, it wasn't that bad. Here's the bike I raced in all 3 of the stages. Rockin the rigid was too fun!

[wrxkid]

Does "nationals" mean that it's a harder course?

[allison]

Originally Posted by wrxkid

Does "nationals" mean that it's a harder course?

There will be more competition.

At Fontana the Expert/Pro course was definitely more difficult. I was glad I'm a USA Cycling Sport DHer that is for sure

It sounds like everyone runs the same course here, though?

I'm honestly hoping not, because sport/beginner practice is listed as the same time as Pro/Semi Pro, and I don't feel like being run off the course. So, we'll see I guess. I have no experience with this venue or promoter at all.

[jbiron]

To me it's not really the distance, amount of climbing, altitude, or weather, it's the amount of time it takes to complete the race; how long can you go at racing effort. For me time is the limiting factor for how much I can train.

Last year I did 10 sport races on a variety of courses ranging from 14 to 24 mi. All but two races were finished between 1:15 and 1:30. The outliers were a 17 miler at Rim Nordic in 1:51 and the 24 miler at Weaverville in 2:24. Both of these races were at altitude and Weaverville was in deep thick mud.

To me most Sport races should be about 1:20 and most Expert races about 2:00. I up in Expert this year and I can only train 8-10 hrs per week and having to go for 3hrs at Sea Otter or 3 laps at Santa Ynez is just not doable for yet.

[allison]

I felt fine at the end and easily could've gone another 30 mins or so. I went *really* hard knowing it was only one lap, but I wasn't physically done the way I have been at the end of some races this year.

The heat was the biggest thing. Had we been doing 2 laps I would've gone out a bit easier.

Still, due to the heat I was glad to only have to do 1, but still was really short for a sport race IMO.