PV: The axe is falling.....

[mottmcfly]

Originally Posted by Sharky

Thanks Marty but I'm deathly afraid of public speaking so they did mostly what was needed there. That place is the only area I have to ride when I visit family down in Torrance so had an importance to me to keep a place to ride with my niece and nephew.
I'm not surprised they joined the two trails at the meetings they fealt it was important to combine the two parallel routes into one so my guess is that's permanent. Hopefully the trailhead still allows the bikers to share the new route and what a shame cause lower slalom was one of the few fun one's left?
Troy can say for sure on that one.

You were there and that counts. I think if we are giving credit that the SBF racing team be given a little credit as well. They were always there for trail work and meetings as well for a long time and always preached and practiced a positive message to everyone on those trails.

[DDB@OCR]

Originally Posted by Kirin Belly

Rode down Ishibashi/Slalom trail from the water tank area today and a reroute trail signs now blocks the trail. Now its just a long straight trail with a few turns before connecting back with the fireroad. Anyone know if this is permanent? Hope not. I love the turns down that trail.

I noticed that last night too......been off for several weeks.

Looks like a re-route, reason unknown. IT was getting pretty blown out. The new trail is a joke. It's a head-on waiting to happen. I'll do some sniffing aournd and get back to you.

[MTBBill]

This is an important thread, but its size (currently 21 pages) has gotten to the point that anyone new to the discussion will most likely not bother. I am assuming we would like to get more people involved, and I think the size of this thread no longer supports that. How about start another thread and in the first post summarize the status as things sit now. Then make a final post in this tread point to the new one then have it closed.

[DDB@OCR]

Unless the mods close this thread it will stay open. There is still ongoing legislature and this thread makes a good log of it.

*

The Lower Salom area is closed for obvious reasons (it's very blown out).
The re-route is also/maybe going to be under review for mods as it is much too straight. I'm pretty sure there will be a call for trail-maintenance and such on this issue. Contact Troy and volunteer.

*

Poacher's are cutting course and taking down peeler core's posts and ropes to do the drop off Eagle's Nest onto Burma.
Whata waste. All that drama for a drop. Pathetic.
I've gotten attitude from these guys asking them not to do it. They simply don't care.

Normally I do not nor will not single out a user group, but when someone looks me in the eye and gives me that smirk, claims they didn't know then patronizes me while his posse laughs......right. Lame. You guys really know WTF you are doing.
Yer cutting your own throats while others are trying hard to get a skills area just for you.

Good job guys. Not.


*

There used to be a groove on the Hill. Now it's all 'mine-mine-mine'. Equines, Bikers, Hiker's- everyone is claiming it, no one other than bikers is really doing much to improve it (including the City) or keep it from getting mowed over like what is happening to Marineland.....all this fuss over a tiny open space when Marineland gets the plow and tract homes are built up on it. That would have made a nice Big Sister to the Canyons Lands. etc...but nope. They allowed it to be plowed and devloped.

Pretty sad really what things are coming too.
Esp when you consider how much some, like Troy, put into this effort only to have a few undo literally years of blood and sweat in less than a few weeks.

I've lived on and around this Hill for 49 years. We have no one but ourselves to blame when it's gone.
Glad I have a nice road bike.

The Axe is still falling......don't think it aint.


Cheers-

-k.

[MTBBill]

I agree, but people who are not in the know are not going to sift through all these pages to digest this history. I summarized post number 1 in a new thread would help bring new folks up to speed who do not have a week to go through this thread. Don't delete. Just start a "Volume 2"

[Stray_Bullit]

The thing that annoys me the most about this thread is the terms used for the trails. Burma? Eagles' nest?

Huh?

You guys win, I used to ride there a lot. Now with all of the static, I just decided to ride my bike other places. It isn't worth the hassle and the dirty looks and the lame feeling that I get when I ride Del Cerro.

You win. The place just isn't fun anymore. It's probably what the XC guys wanted anyway. Now they can skid down all the runs w/o anyone saying anything about their (lack of) skills.

I've seen it with my own eyes. 8 XC riders skidding almost out of control down the fire road drop. One right after the other. Big ol' cloud of dust when they were done just to stop and bitch about the freeriders.

I'm sure you are all happy with the lack of freeriders there. You've bitched enough and you've now won. They ride elsewhere.

EDIT:

After re-reading this thread, I have decided to ride PV more than I used to! I hope to (literally) run into Roach. I won't get hurt b/c I will have all of my starship trooper gear on.

[mottmcfly]

Originally Posted by Stray_Bullit

The thing that annoys me the most about this thread is the terms used for the trails. Burma? Eagles' nest?

Huh?

You guys win, I used to ride there a lot. Now with all of the static, I just decided to ride my bike other places. It isn't worth the hassle and the dirty looks and the lame feeling that I get when I ride Del Cerro.

You win. The place just isn't fun anymore. It's probably what the XC guys wanted anyway. Now they can skid down all the runs w/o anyone saying anything about their (lack of) skills.

I've seen it with my own eyes. 8 XC riders skidding almost out of control down the fire road drop. One right after the other. Big ol' cloud of dust when they were done just to stop and bitch about the freeriders.

I'm sure you are all happy with the lack of freeriders there. You've bitched enough and you've now won. They ride elsewhere.

While I still support the idea, the people and all the work they've done I have to agree on the point that it's just not fun anymore to even think about riding there. Furthermore it's hard to stay involved when you're discipline gets trampled on every other page. I'm an AM, XC, Freerider DH guy. Oh wait, that means I'm a mountain biker.

It's whats under the helmet not what's in between the legs.

The Blame game is alive and well even after 21 pages.

That's whats sad

Mott

[DDB@OCR]

I edited my post- the term "Freeriders", which had been 'marked' with quotation marks etc., et. al......has been removed in the interest of Political Correctness- and substituted with Poachers.

This point was very well taken:

It's whats under the helmet not what's in between the legs.

[Framekiller]

what happened with the "freeriders" is what I feared might happen. All the responsible ones (myself and others I know) have left, leaving only poachers and assholes who dont give a crap about the all the work that has been put in on their behalf. They are just going to ride until the land isn't there anymore, and not give a damn about anyone else. Sad really.

[Sharky]

Unfortunately sign posts are being pulled and ignored but we can't point fingers unless witnessed. Since a city council review is coming up the beginning of the year be patient and continue riding responsibly. As for Roach oh PALEEEEASE look at his post history it's obvious his intent by focussing his negative comments in this thread. In no way does he represent the thinking of fellow riders out there. WE ARE ALL just as welcome and I'll take the big bike and full face whenever I feel as well as xc mode . The term bikers covers every type of bike. Sadly the changes have lessoned the attraction but it's the only place to ride in the Torrance area when I visit there. It's not over and as long as we continue respecting the current rules in place they'll concider opening up more trails to us and surely there's still a chance for a freeride type area outside the reserve. I communicated with Troy through emails so hopefully he'll start up a new thread soon with updates and he did confirm the new route in the lower Slalom area with possible changes to make it more "interesting" especially if we offer to do the work. It is frustrating but hang in there cause I still believe fair changes are in the near future.

[dubl_xl]

My co-workers and I used to ride the "Cizzle" on Thursdays after work, it was a regular ride for us. It is the first place I really got "air" on a full suspension bike and learned to trust my tires while cornering on the "Slalom Run". Del Cerro is also where I learned of STR from none other than Sharky herself. I still have photos of my feeble attempts at getting air that she made it a point to e-mail to my co-worker (also now a STR member). I am grateful to her for her introducing me to STR, I have made quite a few acquaintances and a couple of good friends (you know who you are). I don't want to give up on the "Cizzle" just yet and know there are a lot of people investing their own time in fighting for reasonable multi-use designations. As for now, we are staying away from Del Cerro so as not to "fuel the fire" of the Us vs Them mentality. We haven't rolled over, just retreated for the time being while things get sorted out. For now we'll just have to go north to the Santa Monicas for our Thursday night after work rides.

[roach]

There are still a few trails where bikes are allowed. Just look at the maps and plan a route. It's not hard. You can still find decent route(s) all the way down to the beach.

Bikes are not going to get any more access than they already have. The fight was fought and the PUMP committee is no-longer. Any trail review done in the future isn't going to inspire anybody to open the area's best trails like Badlands and GrandCyn.

When you've got riders that are pulling out barriers right at a road drop, then congregating there like it's a party, we should feel fortunate for what we have. Just a few weeks ago, I saw a couple of guys causally scoping out the drops on Badlands, all in bike gear, with their bikes. That trail is totally visible for miles. If you choose to break the rules, at least try to be stealth about it. Nobody can stop the don't care mentality.

But, hey, there's still cool stuff out there.

[MTBBill]

This post is exactly why this thread needs to be closed. How many push-back posts were caused by your original post? Now (possibily) months later you get to change you orginal comments to some thing less contentious. If people think this thread should be around for historical purposes then leave it as such, no changes allowed (aka closed). Don't try to rewrite sometime later to make "your" side (whatever that is) look less contentious. You have basically invalidated the contents of this thread as it is no longer has any historical integrity. You should make the case in a new thread.

Originally Posted by DDB@OCR

I edited my post- the term "Freeriders", which had been 'marked' with quotation marks etc., et. al......has been removed in the interest of Political Correctness- and substituted with Poachers.

This point was very well taken:

[DDB@OCR]

Originally Posted by MTBBill

This post is exactly why this thread needs to be closed. How many push-back posts were caused by your original post? Now (possibily) months later you get to change you orginal comments to some thing less contentious. If people think this thread should be around for historical purposes then leave it as such, no changes allowed (aka closed). Don't try to rewrite sometime later to make "your" side (whatever that is) look less contentious. You have basically invalidated the contents of this thread as it is no longer has any historical integrity. You should make the case in a new thread.

Are you a mod? Lock it and start a new one. If not? PM a mod and get it locked and me banned too if ya like- frankly, I could not care less- don't spend a lot of time on line, even less won't matter a bit to me. You also obviously have issues with me personally, so it's prolly best they lock this and I move on.

P/s: Might wanna re-read my post and the point(s) I was emphasising.


-kevin.

[MTBBill]

Originally Posted by DDB@OCR

Are you a mod? Lock it and start a new one. If not? PM a mod and get it locked and me banned too if ya like- frankly, I could not care less- don't spend a lot of time on line, even less won't matter a bit to me. You also obviously have issues with me personally, so it's prolly best they lock this and I move on.

P/s: Might wanna re-read my post and the point(s) I was emphasising.


-kevin.

Kevin, I have no issue with you what so ever. I have never met you but I believe that you and this thread are trying to serve a meaningful purpose to get some vital information out to trail users and advocates. The sheer size of this thread (in my opinion) is no longer serving that purpose as people have better things to do than sift through this entire tome. What they may do is read through some small portion and be left with only paritial and quite possibly out-of-date and inaccurate information. Even if you add a new post to this thread with the lastest and greatest information users most likely will not see it.

I believe this trail system and the advocacy that is trying to be accomplished there would be better served with new thread that contains accurate and up-to-date information with a brief synopsis of the efforts to date. This will give the viewers of STR and good understanding of what is going on there and maybe they will lend a helping hand. Which is what I believe was the orginal intent of this thread in the first place.

Once again, I have no issue with you. Anyone who is for good trails and is willing to put some advocacy efforts towards that is good in my book. I just hate to see your efforts not getting the proper publicity on STR due to a bloated thread.

[Freerideco]

Check out the updated map at socaldirt.org. From my point of view, the best option that these teams will have for mid-week training is Del Cerro. Does anyone think the decision-makers have a special place in their heart for high school racing teams?

[crashergs]