PV: The axe is falling.....

[Clockwork_Rider]

This whole thing hurts... especially since it's so close and stuff! I was going to go for a ride this morning and the signs were posted at the floodgate thing. Well, I know I will be there on the 23rd for sure. Hope to see many of you guys showing support too!

[Flat Broke]

Originally Posted by hoovermd

They seem to forget that time is money.
Do they not think that we notice the insincerity of all the boilerplate legalese that is spewed out way daily?


The decision is binary: to support or not support.

If I send them a mail stating "let us ride" is that any different than forwarding a pre-compiled template?

I agree 100%. In fact that thought that a public official complained about hearing form the public on an issue got me more than a little pissed. Thankfully I don't live in RPV otherwise I'd really take issue with the behavior.

I only posted that information as it's an issue with the City Council. Imho it certainly isn't right, but if what we want are access to trails, the easiest/fastest way to do that is be aware of potential pitfalls and act accordingly.

See ya in a week,
Chris

[roach]

The return of the wet weather this year has enabled the Canyons (land of weeds) to be restored to it's former glory. I can't imagine a longer "time-out" is needed to "recover". Good thing we let the weeds take over again, all in the name of habitat protection and in accordance with the area's silly new title of "nature preserve".

I've been out there twice a week since the "closures" and many of the trails are being suffocated by weeds.

On a side note, the freeride/downhill goon factor has been next to zero since the closures. These weed walls will likely deter future fox apparel models with their shiny metal gear.

Probably the best thing the closures have caused.

[Flat Broke]

I'm sure the PVPLC will claim responsibilty for the new vegitation; pointing to the sucess of the "time out" And I'm certain that the pseudo naturalists will find some way to imply that the lack of bikes in the area led to this "miraculous" recovery.

Then of course, come summer when all those weeds are brown and ugly, they'll recognize them as non-native and want to remove them and replace them with something nice and green.

Saturday is going to be interesting.
Chris

[Flat Broke]

I know that many folks will be at the Fontana races this weekend, and many more that would like to attend the “last stand” with regard to bike access at Del Cerro also have other obligations which may preclude them from committing to an all day meeting. With that in mind, I would like to request that anyone that wishes to support mountain biking in what is now called the Canyons Ecological Preserve, take a moment to send an email to the Rancho Palos Verdes City Council. Make the subject line CANYONS ECOLOGICAL PRESERVE or something of the like. Below is an excerpt from CORBA PV’s web page covering the information you may want to include in your email to the City Council. For those of you that will be attending, I will also include RPV’s notes on speaking at City Council meetings further down the page.

You can participate by speaking details on speaking and /or sending an email to the city council at CC@rpv.com. We encourage RPV residents to voice their views. Email CORBA PV at info@mtbpv.org if you have questions.

Suggestions:
►Please don't send duplicate emails or petitions, make them original.
►Keep it positive! No need to rant or complain, just tell them what you feel is a fair plan.
►For specific trails, use the names on the CORBA PV recommendations.
►For trails not on the map, try west or east of the closest named trail. There should be a map on display.
►Below are some points to consider:

• Cyclist will stay on designated trails and not build new ones.
• Cyclists will volunteer to repair damage to trails.
• The bike community is working to make sure everyone knows the rules.
• There is no evidence that bike use impacts trails any differently from other users if they stay on designated trails.
• Cyclists have volunteered for trail work and deserve respect.
• I've volunteered to repair these trails. We deserve to ride them.
• Cyclists can control their bikes even on the steepest trail.
• I've never had a bad encounter with hikers or horses.

There is a little bug with the city’s site and mail server. You’re going to get a message indicating that your email didn’t go through when in fact it probably did. I guess one person re-sent their email 4 times before the Mayor responded saying there was a problem with the site/mail server and all of the emails were actually received. Seeing as how “too many emails” was a problem last time, we have to be sensitive to the City Council’s “issues” with correspondence.

I thank everyone in advance for sending a thoughtful and concise correspondence to the City Council for consideration on this matter. Time is of the essence, so the sooner you can get them in, the better.

For those of you who will be attending, you will find some general guidelines for conduct below. If you can, try not to repeat what previous speakers have said. Additionally, the Council tends to work in “in favor of” or “opposed to” terms. So if you can quickly summarize your stance by saying you are “in favor of ___insert whatever previously presented plan you are in favor of here_____” you’ll help move the meeting along and make your position easily understood. Below is an excerpt from the RPV website that covers some of the formalities of speaking at a City Council meeting:

This agenda has been prepared to provide for the orderly progression of City business. Detailed staff reports on specific items are posted in the hallway for public viewing. The City Council wants to hear your comments, however, to run the meeting efficiently, please observe the following rules when you participate in the meeting.

Please try to submit your REQUEST TO ADDRESS THE CITY COUNCIL form to the Assistant City Manager/City Clerk prior to the start of the item. You will be called at the appropriate time to make your remarks. The Mayor’s instructions to the audience will vary and will depend on the issue being discussed, but will generally follow these guidelines:

• Participants must speak from the podium using the lectern microphone;
• Comments are to be directed to the City Council and not to the staff or the public;
• The normal time limit for each speaker is three minutes;
• Repetition should be avoided; and
• Reading a submission that has been copied or contained in the agenda will be discouraged.

For the sake of efficiency, the City Council agenda is divided into sections:
Public Comments: This part of the agenda is reserved for making comments on matters which are NOT on the agenda. If you have submitted a request to speak, you will be called by the City Clerk at the appropriate time and you may speak for up to three minutes. If action by the Council is necessary, the matter may be placed on a future agenda or referred to staff, as determined by Council.

Consent Calendar: This section consists of routine items which, unless a request has been received from the public, Council or staff to remove a particular item for discussion, are enacted by one motion of the City Council. If you wish to speak to any Consent Calendar item(s) you will be limited to three minutes.

Public Hearings: This section is devoted to noticed hearings. Applicants and/or appellants are allowed ten minutes to address Council and a three minute rebuttal, if requested. Although the normal time limit for all other speakers is three minutes, the Mayor may grant additional time to a representative speaking for an entire group; however, this should not discourage anyone from addressing the City Council individually.

City Council Oral Reports: This section is designated for oral reports from council members to report on their Council assignments.

Regular Business: This section contains items of general business and you will be allowed three minutes to speak on any item.

Old Business: For a list of items previously discussed and continued to a future meeting, please refer to the City Council page on the City’s website at www.palosverdes.com/rpv

Conduct at the Council Meeting: The City Council has adopted a set of rules for conduct during City Council meetings. The following is an excerpt from the adopted Rules of Procedure:
Section 6.3: The Mayor shall order removed from the Council Chambers any person(s) who commits the following acts at a regular or special meeting of the City Council.

1. Disorderly, contemptuous or insolent behavior toward the Council or any member thereof, tending to interrupt the due and orderly course of said meeting.
2. A breach of the peace, boisterous conduct or violent disturbance, tending to interrupt the due and orderly course of said meeting.
3. Disobedience of any lawful order of the Mayor, which shall include an order to be seated or to refrain from addressing the Council.
4. Any other unlawful interference with the due and orderly course of the meeting.

Thank you to those of you who have sent emails in the past, or attended the past PUMP committee meetings. And thank you in advance for your correspondence or attendance for what will probably be the last time before management is turned over to the PVPLC. Hopefully the collective voice of not just mountain bikers, but all trail users who feel that “Multiuse is the best use”, will be heard.

Chris

[El Presidente]

I wish I could be there but I will be at the Tour of California.

I will send an e mail to the City Council!

Thank you all that are helping with this issue!

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
Margaret Mead

[deusxq]

so for those who managed to make the meeting, lets have a report!

[drclark]

It was long, ugly, and very frustrating. The only saving grace was that it rained all day. Had it been sunny I might have left and gone for a ride. It was very hard to stay on the high road hearing accusation after accusation. Bunny killing was mentioned yet again.... My frustration with the entire process has me thinking that changing tactics and getting more militant (i.e. critical mass style rides with 100 or more bikers invading the park and taking the trails for a day) would at least make me feel a bit better about it (again this comment is out of frustration).

The city council voted to adopt the canyons trail plan withthe following edits.

Firestation and Upper grapevine changed from multi-use to ped-horse only based mostly on concerns that the short connector trail that runs thru private property in rolling hills will not ever allow bikes.

There were over 70 people who came to comment on the canyons plans. Most were hikers/horseback riders claiming that bikes and horses have no place on trails together and that the bikers have destroyed the environment, etc... all in all, pretty much a re-hash of all the allegations leveled at bikers in through the pump meetings.

Trails will reopen in 30 days or when the following conditions are met:
1. All signs in place at reserve entrances and trail heads.
2. Speed limit signs in place.
3. City has an enforcement plan in place (most likely random or when complaints are called in as the city does not have the budget to have full time enforcement).
4. City has a trail maintenance plan in place.
5. Conservacy to provide an initial report 6 months after the trails reopen.

Overall I got the impression that a couple of the city council members were sympathetic toward the biker's issues but just too many anti's showed up with stories of close calls or actuall being hit by bikers.

For a bit it seemed like the council recognized that the too many trails had been closed. I was hoping that the horse v bike arguements would result in reopening of more trails. However, I also sensed the council was under pressure to get the trails reopened and that would require adopting some sort of plan. It was obvious that the the plan could not be re-engineered by the council in that meeting so they adopted what was in front of them with "promises" that it was a living document and still in work etc. Overall, I believe we would have been better off if the council had rejected the plan, sent it back to the pump with instuctions to add back trails that allow more equal access, and left the temporary closure in place.

I suspect that what will happen is something similar to forrestal where 6 months to a year later, they will quietly vote to reopen more trails to bikes after alot of the activism and anger subsides. That is assuming the bike community complies with the current restrictions and there are no reported incidents of conflict with bikers.

A positive thing was that at least on city concil member recognized that the land was bought with 95% public $$ (fed and state). This was discussed in when the council decided to rename the overall reserve to the Palos Verdes Nature Reserve so that it would be more recognizable to those who don't live on the hill. Bikers should point out in future letters, emails etc that the plan favors equestrians who already have 50 mi of horse only trails on the pennisula and does not adequately serve the needs of the southbay and greater LA county residents are not equestrians.

The prospect of a funzone is still alive and hopefully we can get that established. I hope that when neighborhood kids start getting ticketed for jumping at del-cerro, a new wave of complaints will follow.

drc

[Flat Broke]

Doug,

Thanks for giving the synopsis on what happened after lunch. Even though I'm sure any comments I would have made (civil or otherwise) would have yielded little positive effect; I still feel bad for not driving back up there after having to head home because my brother (we car pooled) got called in to work.

As you alluded to, I feel the lack of "average" users in the audience was the ultimate demise for multiuse trails being expanded. The audience was deffinitely not an accurate sample of the user base for the area, and I hope the City Coucil recognized this.

I too was very pleased when the one Council Member drew attention to the fact that the funding for the land was raised state-wide. It was refreshing to hear something other than the far too familiar penninsual-centric mentality that was so common during PUMP meetings.

So now I guess we'll wait until the moratorium is lifted and then see how things shake out over the next 6 months to a year.

Chris

[Sharky]

Just want to thanks you guys for going and helping represent the bikers. Sad to hear the dismal outcome.
I fealt bad not being able to make such a vital meeting but had to stay local to make my morning and afternoon jobs.
I know so many were expecting a fair outcome sounds like the anti-biking attitude was just as prevalent as at the PUMP meetings.
Many thanks to you.

[grantos]

Aloha All,

I would also like to thank all of you for the hard fought job so many of you have put forth. I live in Hawaii but regularly return to the Southern California area to ride. PV is where I cut my teeth when I first took up mountain biking in 1985. It is a sad realization that if nothing was done there, mountain bikers would not have anything to ride. At least with all of the hard work by you people in the area, there is still hope of things to ride and enjoy.

Much Aloha,
g

[DownHillPhil]

Originally Posted by Sharky

I fealt bad not being able to make such a vital meeting but had to stay local to make my morning and afternoon jobs.

gotta pay the bills!

[Sharky]

Actually I have a petsitting business I've built up that I'm very proud of. Mostly keeps me busy early mornings and afternoons.

Saturday I might be out to Del Cerro to take my niece on one of her first real rides if you and Andrew are going?

[Stray_Bullit]

So can someone give it to me in layman's terms? I've got two small kids and I don't have time to read every sentence. I do appreciate the effort in the long posts but it's too hard to read it all while Dora is blaring in the background!

[PVt]

Basically, the place is still closed, except fire roads, until the council decides otherwise. You can see a map of council approved trails at mtbpv.org.

There is some indication that the Grapevine trail (Slalom) could be opened to bikes. This may be decided at the next meeting on March 18th, as well as Forrestal and Ocean Trails Reserves. Equestrians will insist bike be eliminated from several trails at Forrestal.

We had a number of excellent speakers at the Feb 23rd meeting but we were completely outnumbered by bike opponents, especially equestrians. If you care about our trails please attend the next one and speak, even if it makes you nervous. You don’t have to be a great orator just a couple of sentences from the heart will do.

[PVt]

We definitely wound up with half a glass, so everyone will see it differently.

The half empty view sees all of the trails we’ve ridden for decades that are gone. All of the small technical trails, the big drops, and even some mellow cruisers are only fond memories. The variety we love has been whittled down to less than a dozen trails in Portuguese Bend.

The half full view remembers that four years ago mountain biking did not officially exist in RPV. Back then, a management plan was being developed at the Forrestal Nature Reserve that did not even include bikes. The Sierra Club, Audubon Society, Native Plant Society, and equestrians opposed us. The hailstorm of resistance was formidable but we refused to quit.

Thanks to the hard work of a bunch of people, mountain biking is recognized as a legitimate form of recreation on trails in RPV. The mountain biking community has rallied. We have a volunteer force that has earned the respect of the city and many in the community. We may never get everything we want but at least now they listen. We are definitely on the map; we have trails to ride and a chance to have more.

We need to understand that this is not a sprint; it’s a very long and incredibly steep climb. We’ve reached a plateau but it isn’t the finish line. We learned at Forrestal that if we keep working at it, we can get trails back. As long as we keep the pedals turning we will succeed. If YOU lose interest, we’ll fall over. Please dig in and keep it rolling.

Troy

[spookydave]

and people wonder why so many trail get poached.

[PVt]

After the bitter disappointment of the Portuguese Bend massacre, bikers in PV really needed a victory. It came late last night at the RPV council meeting.

The usual anti bike groups spoke, claiming bikes destroy habitat and endanger other users, and therefore should not be allowed on trails at the Forrestal Reserve.

Fortunately, we had factual data in the city ordered Forrestal Monitoring Report to support our claims that bikes present no more problems than other users. In fact, the report stated that there has not been a single complaint against bikers.

As a result, the trails plan at Forrestal remains intact with the exception of Cristo Que Viento, which was changed to pedestrian. This trail is expendable because it is incredibly steep and goes into Rolling Hills. I believe it gave the council something to sacrifice to the habitat folks. So be it.

It seemed the anti bike element lost its intensity and the council is finally starting to get it. Surprisingly, some councilmen actually asked detailed questions from bike speakers. One questioned whether CORBA PV could fulfill its promise to help educate bikers. In essence, this is the doorway to get more trails opened to bikes. If we ride responsibly and volunteer for trail work, we have a chance at the next trail review in six months.

After being disappointed (pissed off actually) at the results for Portuguese Bend, I feel rejuvenated. I can’t possibly express enough thanks to the eight resolute bikers who came to the meeting.

You rose from the ashes to