PV: The axe is falling.....

[DDB@OCR]

We did a farewell tour yesterday.

The Hill (99% of trails) is officially CLOSED:

http://mtbpv.org/

[jonkranked]

as of 4pm today, no closure signs were posted at the del Cerro gate entrance.

[ssisyphus]

The Palos Verdes Peninsula Land Conservancy who is responsible for this "emergency closure" has done nothing to inform the public regarding this.

They should have the integrity to take ownership of their backfired attempt to skirt the public process (PUMP committee) that resulted in this closure that is sure to anger all users.

We will still need to take the "high road" and comply and set a good example--but if anybody asks you why the area is closed be sure to state in no uncertain terms that the Land Conservancy (PVPLC) is entirely responsible and if they have any further questions encourage them to contact PVPLC.

We will prevail as long as we behave better than our adversaries and so far we're looking great thanks to Troy, the CORBA PV team and everyone else who has helped our cause.

Let's keep after them and win this!!!!rote st:

[ssisyphus]

Click for more info

Urgent!
Portuguese Bend Trails Closed to Public[/SIZE] (everyone)
It is important for cyclists to obey this temporary closure.
Please show we care. There will be enforcement by the Sheriffs Department.

Burma Road will remain open. All other trails, with the exception of those shown on the map below, are closed to allow damaged areas to recover. Large Map

Check back for updates or email us info@mtbpv.org. If you see a closed sign anywhere please obey it. Bike opponents will be photographing violators.

Check the CORBA PV web site for more info.

[drclark]

I was out there yesterday. I wish I could have rode it saturday as well but had to work. The dirt is just perfect out there now that we have gotten some rains and hills are starting to look green again. Yesterday was just perfect. It was really bittersweet. Even if we get access to the trails we want, in reality riding there probably won't be the same.

I crashed once but didn't feel too bad about spilling my blood on one of the trails that will probably be closed for good.

That being said, it would be nice if someone local to the area can post when the signs actually go up. There is currently nothing on the pvplc.org website or rpv city website to suggest that the trails are closed. This also would not be the first time that they announced the trail closures at the PUMP meeting only to encounter yet another delay. I could imagine that the little bit of rain we got today might have put things off a day.

drc

[jonny nez]

Hello,
What is the plan for Feb 23rd? I plan on coming out. Does the City Council have the final say? Is there still a chance? With the rain and it being closed, I am hoping that it "heals" (or at least hides the trails even more) so that the City Council can see that it is still in good shape. I will bring a couple "well mannered" youngsters (and great riders) with me...to advocate the need for a place for the kids/teenagers.

Please give me more info on the 23rd.
Time?
Attire?
Are we meeting before hand?
etc.

thanks.

[DDB@OCR]

"Troy –
Your source is correct.
The signs were not posted over the holiday weekend, but the City crew may be installing the signs today.
A message will be sent out today to the site-serve subscribers indicating what trails are available during the "time-out." A map will be posted on the City’s website.
Stay tuned. "

[tekknics12]

I hope they save this area in that Feb meeting...
Thats got to be the most dynamic area of Del Cerro...
Thats the first place I hit...great warmup for waterfall and jump trails!....Where else in the South bay can I ride if they close all those trails???...I guess its back to stair riding at Redondo Pier!!...or getting fat again...jk

[ohyeah89]

Originally Posted by Stray_Bullit

Here is a webpage of the hikers up in Santa Barbara. You may have seen this webpage before?!?! I think it's comedy, but obviously (from their point of view) it isn't.

Click here: http://www.safetrails.net/index.asp

WOW! Just WOW! What's so devastating about that website is the majority of it (minus the bogus parts about biochemical differences between hikers and bikers, etc) is that it is written in a clear and concise manner and the goals they encompass *seem* to make logical sense. The response from the mtb community they portray only does more to help their cause (I'm sure they don't include the well thought-out and logical responses they receive). They also include a section to "educate" with a section "what to say" to help people debate without sounding overly emotional.

However, as one delves deeper into their website you can see that although they try to encompass unemotional logic, they are in fact completely biased (Bikers section). In an attempt to bring research studies to characterize a group of people, they in fact provide us with a major flaw. In an attempt to draw a distinct difference between hikers and bikers, THEY'VE FORGOTTEN THAT THERE ARE THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE BOTH! I am a hiker. I am a biker. Where does that put me?

The point is though, websites like this are really damaging to the multiuse cause because they can easily fool those that are uninvolved in the issues into thinking they are the logical ones, they are only concerned for safety. They have a pamphlet to propogate their mission to other hikers and encourage their followers to "Get Political" and to read "The Art of War"!!! Although we may not like what they are propagating, we can actually learn from this; we need to stand up for our socalled "privilege" to ride and help educate those unfamilar with biking with our cause.

Personally, I don't think we need segregation on the trails, we need COMMON COURTESY!!! Common courtesy amonst us all!!!

whew *End of Rant*

[drclark]

Originally Posted by tekknics12

I hope they save this area in that Feb meeting...
Thats got to be the most dynamic area of Del Cerro...
Thats the first place I hit...great warmup for waterfall and jump trails!....Where else in the South bay can I ride if they close all those trails???...I guess its back to stair riding at Redondo Pier!!...or getting fat again...jk

I am sorry but there is absolutely no chance for badlands. It runs directly through a rare geological formation called pillow lava.

http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/vents/nemo/...s/pillows.html

Also, majority of people on the committee do not feel that any type of "aggressive" riding (i.e. jumps, drops, riding fast, etc) have any place in a "nature preserve". I would expect that all jumps and drop-ins will eventually be removed. We are trying to get a "funzone" established where that type of riding will be permitted, but nothing is certain yet.


drc

[Sharky]

Is the next meeting this wednesday?

[Flat Broke]

As an FYI for everyone regarding the closure/moratorium, below is a copy of the email I received from the RPV list server:

On November 20, 2007, the City Council established a temporary moratorium on trail uses within certain portions of the NCCP Preserve’s Canyons Ecological Reserve (ER), as recommended by the Palos Verdes Peninsula Land Conservancy, to allow the re-establishment of the protected habitat in areas where the most severe degradation has occurred. The intent of the temporary moratorium or “time-out” is intended to restrict access by all user groups (pedestrians, equestrians, and bicyclists) from areas identified as containing habitat degradation resulting from excessive trail use with the exception of the fire roads and the area adjacent to the Forrestal Ecological Reserve.

Click here to view a map of the permitted trails the public can use during the temporary moratorium.
The temporary moratorium is in effect until the City Council revisits this issue at its upcoming meeting on Saturday, February 23, 2008 at 9:30 am at the Point Vicente Interpretive Center (PVIC). Please direct all inquiries to Principal Planner Ara Mihranian at 310-544-5228 or via email at aram@rpv.com

I apologize for not having more information on the agenda for the 23rd at this time. I've had some family issues; but I'll be back on top of things by the begining of next week.

Thanks,
Chris

[gregg]

PV is officially closed. They have posted signs. Here is an artile from the Daily Breeze. http://www.dailybreeze.com/ci_8135750?source=rss_viewed

[mottmcfly]

Originally Posted by gregg

PV is officially closed. They have posted signs. Here is an artile from the Daily Breeze. http://www.dailybreeze.com/ci_8135750?source=rss_viewed

As sad as this is, at least they banned everyone and didn't single us out.

[DownHillPhil]

Originally Posted by mottmcfly

As sad as this is, at least they banned everyone and didn't single us out.

For now *shrug*

[Flat Broke]

Originally Posted by mottmcfly

As sad as this is, at least they banned everyone and didn't single us out.

This could also be used as a way for those who seek to expunge biking from the area to gain high visibility for any mistakes in judgement made by the cycling community.

As an example, someone has removed the closure sign at the jump area by the water tower. Whether it was a sabotaging hiker looking to make us look bad, or actually a biker that decided the closure didn't pertain to them; the damage has been done, and will surely be used as amunition against bikes in general on the 23rd.

We as a community need to live with and obey the closures for the time being. Anything less than compliance could greatly impact the future of biking in the area. If that means we need to go out and patrol the fire road to keep other bikers from going off trail, then that's what we'll have to do. But to be honest, I'd rather not have to ride a fire road to keep other bikers in check. The problem is that on the days when people can't be there to "guide" members of our community, these transgressions will continue to erode our credibility and hinder any efforts to maintain or expand access for bikes to the area.

Obey the closures, and if you happen to see anyone out there who's not; spread the word.

Thanks,
Chris

[2wheel_lee]

BTW, all the links I've clicked on in the last few pages of this thread that refer to a map of the legal trails are bad, or at least they don't work for me. Does anyone have a good link?

[Flat Broke]

Lee,

I know the link worked when I posted it, but sure enough, it's not valid right now. I did some digging on RPV's website and found this link. But it basically doesn't show the other trails in the area. The other map with the closed trails posted in red was far more telling; but I have a feeling the change may be due to a growing negative sentiment amongst PRV residents. Showing a map of what's open casts a more positive spin than a map showing everyone the stuff they are missing because the PVPLC made a rash decision based upon outcry from an elitist twat who thought she was going to run bikes out of the area in the name of habitat protection. The joke turned out to be on her, and every other trail user; as she got exactly what she asked for when the City council gave the PVPLC the right to execute the closure in the name of habitat protection, so long as it pertained to all uses.

It'd be nice if the people of RPV (from all user groups) showed up on the 23rd and basically told the City Council that they want the PVPLC to STFU, and let common sense dictate policy in the area. It's my hope that the ban/moratorium turns out to be a good thing in uniting the average users from each group against the elitist schmucks who are running the PVPLC. We just have to be careful in the mean time and make sure that we're model citizens; so when the backlash hopefully strips some authority from the PVPLC, and the public is allowed back on the trails, bikes are allowed right next to equestrians and pedestrians.

Chris

[Flat Broke]

A week from tomorrow the Rancho Palos Verdes City Council will hear from the public in workshop setting in what may be the last time on this topic. FEB 23rd will be the meeting that may well have irreprable and lasting effects on bicycle access at Del Cerro. Below is the message I received from the RPV listserver annoucing the meeting.


NOTICE

NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that the City Council of the City of Rancho Palos Verdes will conduct an adjourned meeting on Saturday, February 23, 2008 at 9:30 a.m. at the Point Vicente Interpretive Center Community Room located at 31501 Palos Verdes Drive West to review and consider the Public Use Master Plan (PUMP) Committee’s recommended Trails Network Plan for the City’s Natural Communities Conservation Plan’s (NCCP) Portuguese Bend Nature Preserve. The proposed Trails Network Plan to be considered by the City Council identifies the recommended trail routes and trail uses (pedestrian, equestrian, and bicycle) for the greater Portuguese Bend Nature Preserve. <A title=blocked::http://www.palosverdes.com/rpv/plann...TWORK-PLAN.pdf href="http://www.palosverdes.com/rpv/planning/planning-zoning/TRAILS-NETWORK-PLAN.pdf">Click here to view the PUMP Committee’s recommended Trails Network Plan. The proposed Trails Network Plan may also be viewed at the Planning Department at the Rancho Palos Verdes City Hall, at Ladera Linda, at Hesse Park, or the Palos Verdes Peninsula Main Library.
All interested parties are invited to submit written comments and to attend and give testimony at the February 23rd City Council Meeting. If you wish to submit written comments, please provide them to the Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement by noon on Friday, February 22, 2008. Written comments submitted by Monday, February 11, 2008 will be included in the City Council Staff Report. The City Council Staff Report, summarizing the PUMP Committee’s recommended Trails Network Plan, will be available after Wednesday, February 13, 2008 on the City’s website at www.palosverdes.com/rpv under the February 23, 2008 City Council Agenda. <A title=blocked::http://www.palosverdes.com/rpv/plann...aster_Plan.cfm href="http://www.palosverdes.com/rpv/planning/planning-zoning/RPV-Public_Use_Master_Plan.cfm">Click here for further information on the PUMP, including the recommended Trails Network Plan. Information on the PUMP may also be obtained at the Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement Department at City Hall, 30940 Hawthorne Boulevard, Rancho Palos Verdes between the hours of 7:30 am and 5:30 pm, Mondays through Thursdays, and 7:30 am and 4:30 pm on Fridays. Please direct all inquiries to Ara Michael Mihranian, Principal Planner, at (310) 544-5228 or via e-mail at aram@rpv.com.

This will likely be an all day affair as a myriad of opinions and arguments will be presented. For those of you that have endured PUMP committee meetings before, I understand that the City Council is going to be very firm about the 3 minute rule, and you won't be subject to cross examination from E** and her followers. If there was a time to make a brief statement about your stance on the subject, this would be it. I'm asking that anyone who has taken the time to come to the PUMP meetings, and anyone who would like to ride Del Cerro in the future, come out and show your support.

I was thinking that depending upon what time the meeting adjourned on the 23rd, we could all meet up for some refreshment somewhere in the South Bay before everyone heads back home. I hear my old haunt "The Pitcher House" is no more, but maybe we could hit up Henneseys down in the Torrance Riviera or somewhere else that's suggested by local folk.

If you can't attend the meeting, or don't feel like getting up to speak at the meeting but still want to attend to show your support; I'll have the particulars for how to communicate your thoughts on the subject to the City Council come Sunday night/Monday morning.

The City Council gets the email messages. I guess the last time we all emailed the city on the subject, the volume of correspondence was overwhelming. Unfortunately many of the emails were copies of the sample email that was posted and that left a sour taste in the mouths of certain Council members because they questioned the sincerity of the emails. Anyhow, I'll have more guidance on that subject come the end of the weekend. In the meantime, let'