PV: The axe is falling.....

[Sharky]

Next meeting is this coming wednesday the 12th. I rode there both Sunday and this past Tuesday and as of yet the Conservancy has not closed any of the trails?
The city gave them permission to do so to ALL users for the moment.
I did however come across this ego pumped mini [FONT=Century Gothic]tool[/FONT] ..feeling threatened I stared him down asking "Are ya feeling lucky today" to which he replied with a resounding "Wheeeeeeeeeeeee !!!!"
On behalf of the fathers and sons I get to see biking out there enjoying sharing these trails let me thank all of you for your hard work keeping these open to us . Many thanks!!!

[ssisyphus]

I saw him also. My problem was I could not easily catergorize him by his equipment. --Rigid single speed,16" wheels, full face helmet what kinda rider is this?
He also seemed to be having a lot of fun and expressed that freely -what nerve!

We'll have to keep our eyes on these guys they may take over our trails in the near future.

Jim

[Stray_Bullit]

Originally Posted by ssisyphus

I saw him also. My problem was I could not easily catergorize him by his equipment. --Rigid single speed,16" wheels, full face helmet what kinda rider is this?
He also seemed to be having a lot of fun and expressed that freely -what nerve!

We'll have to keep our eyes on these guys they may take over our trails in the near future.

Jim

For sure! This kid should be home eating junk food and playing video games! The nerve of him to be outside riding his bike and having fun. His parents should be ashamed.

[/SARCASM]

[Cableguy]

I just came back from riding. You would not believe this, but I found a dead rabbit on the Upper Paintbrush trail. Not sure what killed it, but probably a larger animal or a bird, as its spine was chewed off. But I could see how non-bikers would try to blame us for its death. Also, since it was dusk and nearly dark, some bikers could have ran over it as well.

Good thing Evil E*a wasn't there, as she would video/photograph it and use it against us. Remember that story she told about finding dead rabbits, and another member said that he saw tire tracks on a dead rabbit? We get blamed for everything.

I picked it up and moved it 20 feet away.

[jonkranked]

Originally Posted by Cableguy

I just came back from riding. You would not believe this, but I found a dead rabbit on the Upper Paintbrush trail. Not sure what killed it, but probably a larger animal or a bird, as its spine was chewed off. But I could see how non-bikers would try to blame us for its death. Also, since it was dusk and nearly dark, some bikers could have ran over it as well.

Good thing Evil E*a wasn't there, as she would video/photograph it and use it against us. Remember that story she told about finding dead rabbits, and another member said that he saw tire tracks on a dead rabbit? We get blamed for everything.

I picked it up and moved it 20 feet away.

naw man that was me. i forgot my clif bar and pulled an Ozzy.

[roach]

Originally Posted by ssisyphus

I saw him also. My problem was I could not easily catergorize him by his equipment. --Rigid single speed,16" wheels, full face helmet what kinda rider is this?
He also seemed to be having a lot of fun and expressed that freely -what nerve!

We'll have to keep our eyes on these guys they may take over our trails in the near future.

Jim

Absolutely. We should be careful with these young ones. Of course they are innocent now, but it is a real threat that they will still be wearing a full-face helmet and body armor after they turn 18. God forbid they're secretly watching the latest Crankworx footage. We need to keep these kids on rigid singlespeeds as long as possible. Of course it won't be easy, especially if they're being exposed to the hordes of Starship Troopers Del Cerro always has on any given weekend. Sure, some exposure to this virus at an early age may be good, kinda like a flu shot. Hopefully sending our young to Del Cerro will build up their immune system against the free-riding disease (trying to be optimistic).

These guys will be taking over our trails in the future.

[ssisyphus]

Gosh Roach,

I was just trying to make a little joke.
Don't go gettin' all serious and mean about it.

My intention was to poke fun at prejudice---gosh!

Jim

[DDB@OCR]

Originally Posted by Cableguy

I just came back from riding. You would not believe this, but I found a dead rabbit on the Upper Paintbrush trail. Not sure what killed it, but probably a larger animal or a bird, as its spine was chewed off. But I could see how non-bikers would try to blame us for its death. Also, since it was dusk and nearly dark, some bikers could have ran over it as well.

Good thing Evil E*a wasn't there, as she would video/photograph it and use it against us. Remember that story she told about finding dead rabbits, and another member said that he saw tire tracks on a dead rabbit? We get blamed for everything.

I picked it up and moved it 20 feet away.

Rabbits are an infestation on that hill.
They do a lot of damage belive it or not. They compete for resourcses and destroy habitat.

Saw a falcon take one two weeks ago. Had his neck butterfly filleted in no time on Bruma by the bee-hives.

Many other predators up there getting some as well at the bunny-buffet.

I almost smacked that dork committe member (Sharky held me back) in the head with my trail map when he spouted that tripe about the pelt marks on the dead bunny trying to sensationalise the sitch. Must suck to be his wife.
Whata maroon.

[Flat Broke]

It's that time again.... PUMP Committee Meeting Fun Time! Here's the copy/paste of the agenda from the RPV Listserver Email.

PUBLIC USE MASTER PLAN COMMITTEE AGENDA WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 12, 2007 AT 7:00 PM RANCHO PALOS VERDES CITY HALL COMMUNITY ROOM 30940 HAWTHORNE BLVD.
1. CALL TO ORDER
2. ROLL CALL
3. COMMITTEE COMMUNICATIONS
4. ADOPT DRAFT NOVEMBER 28, 2007 MINUTES
5. CONTINUED BUSINESS
a. Review and Approve the Trail Routes for the Canyons ER. Click here to view the map.
b. Review a Motion Statement Proposed By Committee Member Tetreault Regarding the Environmental Condition of the Canyons ER
c. Affirm the Final Draft Trails Network Plan for the Three Sisters ER. Click here to view the map.
6. NEW BUSINESS a. Select a Meeting Calendar for 2008
b. Introduction to Uses within the Preserve.
7. PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA
8. ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
9. ADJOURNMENT Next meeting is to be determined


Let me start by saying, I'm not going to be able to attend. I have a family obligation that takes precedence over most other activities. So in my stead, I'm sure there will be other STR folks to attend and report back the on goings, nuances, and intricacies of the meeting. There are still a notable number of trails that need representation by the biking community as they are decided upon by the PUMP Committee.

I can honestly say that from when I started attending meetings, I think the outlook for bikers in the area once under management has improved. There have been some big ups and downs, and a few close calls, but as a community we've come out of each ordeal in better shape than what the worst case scenario offered. This can only be attributed to the biking community getting involved and standing up for ourselves. We need to constantly reinforce the idea that a VERY small percentage of our family is responsible for some of the damage and negative accounts by trail users. Only by staying involved and voicing our desire to have access to each and every trail voted on, can we hope to have good representation in the final PUMP Committee recommendation.

To further the idea that getting involved can foster positive results; I've heard heard rumblings that members of the community leadership are in favor of a technical riding area, and envision the concept in a fashion we could have only hoped for. Additionally, it seems that support for a dedicated technical riding area is growing among decision makers as the positive aspects of the concept are easily recognized. I view news like this as encouragement and an invitation to remain involved and vocal with regard to our access in the area. There are a number of people who have been fighting this battle for the past couple of years, and we owe them many thanks. There is no doubt that the infusion of fresh faces and the perception of a larger number of users being bikers is helping our cause to some degree with the PUMP process, but also at the City Council/decision making level. Long story short, we need to stay involved and keep attending meetings.

As a last request, while I don't know of any closures posted by the Conservancy yet, once the signs go up, please respect them and obey them. We will surely be closely scrutinized once the signs are in place. Showing a disregard for marked trails (be they closed or not) doesn't help our argument that we are a responsible group.

Good luck at the meeting, and I'll see everyone at the next one.

Chris

[Sharky]

Your presence will be missed. Doug , Chris and others have shown this Board another side of bikers and YES it is frustrating that some have their obvious agendas but without the informed arguments these guys have presented most definitely some decisions would have gone in a negative direction. Hope more can come out it's getting down to the wire here. See ya all there (turkey jerkey for the asking ). Hopefully we can finish things up this meeting but doubt it.

I almost forgot our most important supporter. Troy on the PUMP committee has been battling this for us for years. MUCH much apreciation, Troy. THANKS !!

[roadkillross]

i will be there. i'll get off work early.

[PVt]

Urgent!
[SIZE=5]Daily Breeze wants your opinion 12-12-07[/SIZE]
[FONT=Arial]The South Bay Daily Breeze has posed a question to the public:[/FONT]
"Hikers, bikers, and equestrians have been discussing how to share trails on the peninsula.
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=4]Should mountain bikes be allowed on the trails, or do such bikes do too much harm to the environment?"[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]Reply with yout thoughts by calling 310-543-6691 or email tellus@dailybreeze.com[/FONT]

They require your full name, home town, and phone number. Please respond quickly, the results will appear in the Friday paper.

[dirtmistress]

Originally Posted by PVt

Urgent!
[SIZE=5]Daily Breeze wants your opinion 12-12-07[/SIZE]
[FONT=Arial]The South Bay Daily Breeze has posed a question to the public:[/FONT]
"Hikers, bikers, and equestrians have been discussing how to share trails on the peninsula.
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=4]Should mountain bikes be allowed on the trails, or do such bikes do too much harm to the environment?"[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]Reply with yout thoughts by calling 310-543-6691 or email tellus@dailybreeze.com[/FONT]

They require your full name, home town, and phone number. Please respond quickly, the results will appear in the Friday paper.

Just sent my letter in! You guys will be banned in no time! hahahaha
Eve





just kidding.

Sorry. Really did send a letter in. I hope everyone that has seen this thread has!!

[2wheel_lee]

Originally Posted by PVt

Urgent!
[SIZE=5]Daily Breeze wants your opinion 12-12-07[/SIZE]
[FONT=Arial]The South Bay Daily Breeze has posed a question to the public:[/FONT]
"Hikers, bikers, and equestrians have been discussing how to share trails on the peninsula.
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=4]Should mountain bikes be allowed on the trails, or do such bikes do too much harm to the environment?"[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]Reply with yout thoughts by calling 310-543-6691 or email tellus@dailybreeze.com[/FONT]

They require your full name, home town, and phone number. Please respond quickly, the results will appear in the Friday paper.

And don't forget to comment that they printed somewhat of a loaded question (asked in a presumed negative form).

[spookydave]

this should be it's own thread and a sticky at that!

[Flat Broke]

Just so I don't get railed if they quote something I said out of context, here is my email sans phone number.

[FONT=Arial]My name is Christopher Lloyd of Long Beach California (XXX-XXX-XXXX), and I’m writing to give my thoughts on the subject of whether or not bikes should be allowed on the trails which now fall under the jurisdiction of the Palos Verdes Peninsula Land Conservancy. I grew up in Torrance and for many years during and after my high school education, I enjoyed riding my bike at the area between Palos Verdes Drive South and the cliffs of the Pacific Ocean. When our favorite riding area dubbed the “fun zone” or “funland” depending upon who you talk to, was turned over to developers, myself and many other users started to ride at the area known as Del Cerro. Today the area is referred to as the Canyons Ecological Preserve, and there are those who would seek to expunge any form of biking from the area.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]Apparently, with large donations to the PVPLC (Palos Verdes Peninsula Land Conservancy) comes instant and infallible insight into all matters having to do with habitat preservation, trail erosion, and user interaction. At least that’s what I’ve gathered from attending the Rancho Palos Verdes Public Use Master Plan (PUMP) Committee meetings. From the time I was made aware of the attempts by a member of the committee to limit bike usage strictly to Burma Road; I have attended each PUMP Committee meeting. At each meeting, some members of the PUMP committee make assertions that essentially blame mountain bike use for every habitat or safety related issue in the preserve. None of the members of the PUMP poses degrees in Geology, Botany, Horticulture, Zoology, or Biology; yet some make unsubstantiated and ill-informed assertions and present them as fact for consideration by the Committee for their recommendation to the City Council. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]My biggest concern is not only the PUMP Committee’s lack of attention to scientific data on issues such as trail widening, flushing distance, and erosion; but more importantly their lack of respect given to input from experts in the areas of habitat biology and trail construction and maintenance. The PVPLC’s staff biologist Becky Harper, has given input on issues ranging from how much of the “damaged” habitat is non-native vegetation that will eventually be removed anyhow; to how the drought is exacerbating the effects of human interaction in the preserve. Still, with statements from the Conservancy’s biologist and insight from Conservancy’s authority on trail maintenance and construction indicating that the situation in the preserve isn’t hopeless, and in fact looks worse than it actually is; certain members of the Committee have painted a picture of total devastation and irreparable damage to the habitat. What is worse is that some of these people evangelically associate all of this carnage and destruction with the cycling community. They pay no attention to published studies by the National Parks Service, Department of Interior, or Arizona State University Doctorates that indicate that cyclists typically impart no more erosion on a trail than hikers, in fact are associated with much lower flushing distances of wild life than hikers or equestrians, and contribute less to trail widening or braiding than the hiker or equestrian user groups (supporting information found in: 2006. D. White et. al., Journal of Park and Recreation Administration (Volume 24, Number 12) and Assessing and Understanding Trail Degradation: Results from Big South Fork National River and Recreational Area; National Park Service Final Research Report; by: Jeffrey L. Marion (February 2006) One would assume that if they were selected by the City Council to help develop the long term usage plan for the area, that they would base their decision on facts not personal biases and prejudices.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]Cyclists, Hikers, and Equestrians have peacefully and amicably shared the trails network in the Del Cerro/Canyons area for decades, and only now when individuals who have a personal agenda are given a chance to make their bias public policy, does the public hear the horrific and highly hyperbolized accounts of how bikers are running down small children and the elderly, killing wildlife, and generally destroying the nature experience of every other user in the preserve. I will be the first to admit that there are individuals within the cycling community who may disregard nature more so than other users. There have also been issues with some of the local youth building jumps and ladder drops in the area. But with a lack of management comes the notion that anything goes. The problem is that some of the PUMP Committee members would rather work under the assumption that even after a management plan is in place, the few cyclists who are responsible for some of the visible issues in the area will continue their efforts. Much to the contrary, some of these individuals have already been made aware of the impact of their actions, and building of new features in the preserve has been greatly curtailed with mere self policing within the cycling community. What the few members of the PUMP Committee who crusade against bike use and true multipurpose trails within the preserve reluctantly and seldom acknowledge is the fact that the overwhelming majority of cyclists who use the preserve are respectful of the habitat and other users. In fact, CORBA PV has taken a proactive approach to issues surrounding multipurpose trail use by circulating trail etiquette guides to help users understand how to interact courteously with members of other user groups.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]There are many points of irony that surround the issue, but perhaps the largest is the fact that while the PUMP Committee deliberates how to segregate users with a “separate but equal” type approach, the users of the preserve continue to use the area, largely without conflict. If the majority of the public knew that many of the trails they currently enjoy will be closed to certain uses or closed all together, you can bet they’d probably have a thing or two to say about how things are out on the trails for the vast majority of users as opposed biased views of a few select individuals with monetary influence with the Conservancy.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]The last issue that seems to escape every single discussion revolving around the preserve is how excluding people from nature will ultimately lead to apathy or disdain for conservation and habitat restoration. No one is arguing that the primary purpose of the preserve should be to restore valuable habitat. But the single best thing the PUMP Committee, City Council, or PVPLC can do for the local habitat is to get as many people as they can to identify with the area and genuinely care about it. If the members of the PUMP Committee and PVPLC who feel that largely limiting the second largest user group’s (PVPLC 2007 Portuguese Bend Visitor’s Survey) access to the habitat is the best way to foster a love for the land, I can’t agree with the approach. Furthermore, creating an adversarial environment through the “separate but equal” practices that are currently being employed for trail use designation in the PUMP Committee meetings is not only morally wrong, but will further disenfranchise people from the conservation efforts of the PVPLC.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]In a day and age where people spend far too much of their time surrounded by concrete and steel, children waste away in front of the television, and obesity is at an all-time high; I can’t understand why those who care about nature and already understand the boundless joys and positive benefits it brings, can be so selfish and discriminatory in their methodology for preserving and sharing precious natural open space. As a community of trail users, we’ve all peacefully coexisted for quite some time. Hopefully, the ultimate trails network as approved by the Rancho Palos Verdes City Council will allow us to continue to do so. Then the PVPLC can take advantage of the large and motivated volunteer base of cyclists who are ready willing and able to help with whatever projects the Conservancy has planed to assist the habitat restoration efforts in the area. [/FONT]