Run in with Art

[genusmtbkr5]

This is from the link that was posted J sykes81. Sounds like the WS is trying to handle this in a civilized manner to me.

Our meeting with the residents of Blackstar

Friends,

Saturday a peace party consisting of 3 members of the Warrior's Society's Chiefs Council as well as Jim Meyer of Trails4All (and his son) met with Art Tuttle one of the residents of Blackstar Canyon. Bill Studer was not home.

Art reiterated his stance that anyone using the road is trespassing and that he would not recognize any claim otherwise. The meeting was civil and Art treated us with respect and we did likewise. Art did not threaten us even after we stated our intention to ride up to Hidden Ranch; he just again stated we were trespassing.

I, as well as my fellow members of the Chiefs Council and others who have experience in dealing with both Art and Bill Studer are a bit perplexed by the claims of violence by others who have come in contact with them. Art and Bill have always confronted us when we have ridden through (if they are in the canyon), and when we have stated our rights and our intention to continue on, they have left us alone.

If you intend to ride Blackstar and are confronted by either Art or Bill, state your legal right to pass through - do not argue the point! Thank them and continue on. If any attempt is made to physically stop you from doing so, state that you will call the Sheriff and have them prosecuted. For detailed info on both riding in Blackstar and a accurate description of both Art and Bill, please see our June 99 newsletter which contains an article written by "Keeps Many Trails" who is very experienced in dealing with both Art and Bill. It is posted on our web in our newsletter.

After our ride we passed Art again on our way out of the Canyon and he did not threaten us in any way. We had a meeting amongst ourselves to discuss our course of action and we decided that there is no need for a petition at this time. Jim Meyer will meet with an Aid of Todd Spitzers, who is the County Supervisor who is responsible for the District in which Blackstar Canyon is located, and will to discuss the situation with him. He may just ask Todd's aid to have the Sheriff respond to any calls regarding physical assaults by the residents.

If you ride up Blackstar and follow our advice and are assaulted, it is your responsibility to report it to the Sheriffs department and demand that the person that assaulted you be charged. If indeed this action is taking place, a few prosecutions will soon end it.

This does not give anyone an excuse to bait the residents into getting arrested by cursing at them or trying to get a reaction from them. If you do this, you are worse than either Art or Bill. We must all work together to maintain the fragile peace that exists.

We will not ask that the sign stating the publics right to pass be re-installed. It would be a worthless thing to ask for because it would soon be vandalized. I know many of you will say, "Just persecute the ones tearing it down." The County will not spend the resources to put the sign under surveillance just to catch the person tearing it down and if we ask them to do so we will look like fools.

Some may criticize our lack of action in not getting the government more involved. But until we feel that there is a need to truly protect the public we will not, and we feel that is the case now. Over the years we have all heard the stories about Blackstar. The thing to remember is that no one has ever been injured or shot. Sometimes these stories take on a life of their own as they are passed from person to person.

We do not take lightly bringing the force of the government against anyone. Art and Bill have their opinion on the status of the road, because their opinion is different from the County's is no reason to take action against them. If you follow our suggestions we believe you will not have any problems riding through Blackstar.

We will not forward any emails in response to this email, please check our website under the link "Comments Received Regarding Blackstar Canyon." If you send and email in response to this one, you have agreed to have it posted on our website unless otherwise stated.

I thank Jim Meyer of Trails4All, and "Keeps Many Trails" and "Keeps His Word" of the Warrior's Society's Chief's Council for accompanying me to this meeting.

Please ride Blackstar in an attitude of peace and do not look for confrontation.

-Chris

To read all of it, go to the link.

http://www.warriorssociety.org/Blackstar_info.html

[Kid A]

[FONT=Bookman Old Style]Sounds like same old story, he's back at it, definitely harassing and appears putting many at risk for serious injury (those obstacles are not falling from the sky)[/FONT]

[FONT=Bookman Old Style]Whatever the history aside, I have no empathy for anyone that clearly is aware of the risk they are putting others in via these actions and support those actions being adressed to the fullest of the law (hopefully before anyone gets hurt)[/FONT]

[jcampbell]

I'll probably get banned for this but...

Wait till someone does get hurt. They'll have to charge 10 times for the VQ and CC in order to pay the legal fees to get out of that mess. I am just an outsider, but I wouldn't be telling everyone that its safe if you follow the WS rules. Wouldn't this put the WS at risk?

If it was me and he put something in the road to hurt me or any of my friends, I think I would act like he's acting. Sometimes this is the only way to take care of a bully. The guy has been a jackass for years. And yes I have met him a few times. I know things have gone on in the canyon before... but things have gone on in Irvine and Santa Ana before so that doesn't make it right.

I once lived next to a drunk sailor for years and always dealt with his crap until one day I came home and he was going off on my girlfriend. My neighbor called the cops and just as they came he took off running and they tackled him in the street. Well they found he was packin' heat. Looney people do looney things. Art and and Studor are not harmless if they are scaring people and putting crap in the road for you to hit.

If everyone wasn't such a pansy ass nowadays, people wouldn't act the way they do. Oh he's harmless this and that, people wouldn't be writing about it and people wouldn't be so scared to ride there alone if he was harmless. I can't imagine if I was out riding there with my niece and that guy scared her. Thats just not right.

[dstepper]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Has anyone seen Art or Bill place obstacles on the trail? If so why have you not called the Sheriff? Don't assume you know what is going on without direct knowledge. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[Kid A]

Originally Posted by dstepper

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] Do assume you know what is going on without direct knowledge. [/SIZE][/FONT]

sure - maybe this is the culprit



btw- anyone see these at hidden ranch???

[DeeZee]

Originally Posted by jcampbell

I'll probably get banned for this but...

Wait till someone does get hurt. They'll have to charge 10 times for the VQ and CC in order to pay the legal fees to get out of that mess. I am just an outsider, but I wouldn't be telling everyone that its safe if you follow the WS rules. Wouldn't this put the WS at risk?

If it was me and he put something in the road to hurt me or any of my friends, I think I would act like he's acting. Sometimes this is the only way to take care of a bully. The guy has been a jackass for years. And yes I have met him a few times. I know things have gone on in the canyon before... but things have gone on in Irvine and Santa Ana before so that doesn't make it right.

I once lived next to a drunk sailor for years and always dealt with his crap until one day I came home and he was going off on my girlfriend. My neighbor called the cops and just as they came he took off running and they tackled him in the street. Well they found he was packin' heat. Looney people do looney things. Art and and Studor are not harmless if they are scaring people and putting crap in the road for you to hit.

If everyone wasn't such a pansy ass nowadays, people wouldn't act the way they do. Oh he's harmless this and that, people wouldn't be writing about it and people wouldn't be so scared to ride there alone if he was harmless. I can't imagine if I was out riding there with my niece and that guy scared her. Thats just not right.

Wait till someone does get hurt. They'll have to charge 10 times for the VQ and CC in order to pay the legal fees to get out of that mess. I am just an outsider, but I wouldn't be telling everyone that its safe if you follow the WS rules. Wouldn't this put the WS at risk?

just Chris being Chris "the peace maker".

If this guy wants to act like a lunatic wave his arms in the air etc.....fine. But if he or anyone else d[FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]eliberately tries to harm people that is crossing the line.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/FONT]

[Keith B]

Would it be wrong to hide in the bushes with one of those red laser pointers to freak him out?!

I say we dress George up as a Terminator and send him out there in some sunglasses and with the laser pointer all fired up then ask Art whether he knows Sarah Connor. 'Art, I've been sent to protect you, The T1000 may try to acquire you out here. You are my b1tch now.'

[KBL]

Dealing with wackos in a peaceful and civil manner is appropriate as long as those dealings are restricted to verbal exchanges. It crosses the line when the wackos put booby traps in the road. Art may not have started out as a bad guy, but it sure sounds like he's turning into one. I won't bait him, but I won't just look the other way if his actions pose an imminent physical threat.

[Red Ryder]

Any booby traps should be reported to the Sheriff's Dept. Besides the danger to all vistors and other residents of the canyon, there is a need to keep the road clear for emergency vehicles. As for his verbal harrassment, would it do any good to report it to the sheriff and the forest service? I wish I knew a little about law, but I'd guess if there are enough complaints, the sheriff or forest service would need to take some kind of action. He has had legal problems before due to his actions.

[Kid A]

Originally Posted by KBL

wackos put booby traps in the road. .

hehe. you said booby!!!!

Originally Posted by Floater

Any booby traps should be reported to the Sheriff's Dept.

hehe u 2. you said booby!!!

damn, wrong booby

[jcampbell]

The blue footed boobie...

[Wrecker]

It is my understanding that the legal action taken against him was due to prior reports of harassment (heehee-I said a$$), so it seems prudent to continue to report any harassment. That way, there is a legit paper trail of his actions, so if they do in fact escalate, they have a legit history and can use it in court.

I have met Chris and many of the other Warrior's and know that they are all people of action; they will not sit back and take abuse. However, there is a difference between reacting to abuse and becoming an abuser.

Another outlook is this, if he is abusive and incapable of controlling his anger, what good will negative, confrontational, even abusive actions have, other than to escalate his behavior?

Reporting him to the authorities gives him a record, that record is admissible in any sentencing hearing and will increase his sentence. If he doesn't learn his lesson by a bit of jail time, maybe he'll learn it by the third strike.

[Kid A]

Originally Posted by Wrecker

It is my understanding that the legal action taken against him was due to prior reports of harassment (heehee-I said a$$), so it seems prudent to continue to report any harassment. That way, there is a legit paper trail of his actions, so if they do in fact escalate, they have a legit history and can use it in court.
.....


Reporting him to the authorities gives him a record, that record is admissible in any sentencing hearing and will increase his sentence. If he doesn't learn his lesson by a bit of jail time, maybe he'll learn it by the third strike.

not sure if this guy or contact info is still good but an old post below from "other site"

And remember Mr T, its three strikes and you are...




#126
[SIZE=+1]Blackstar Cyn. Law Enforcement[/SIZE] - To answer the first question you may be thinking....yes, Law Enforcement DOES monitor these websites. I would first like to introduce myself, I am Officer Demarest a Law Enforcement Officer assigned to the Cleveland National Forest L.E.&I Office (Law Enforcement and Investigations) In Corona California. I patrol the Blackstar Canyon area and the rest of the Trabuco Ranger District with several other recently aquired officers. First, I would like to quell a few rumors. The Tuttle arrest: Myself and additional USFS Officers along with several Orange County Sheriff's deputies did arrest Art Tuttle for brandishing a firearm at a hiker in Blackstar CYN. He currently resides in the O.C. jail. Use of the road: The Forest Service has an easment on Blackstar CYN road all the way to Beeks which means that the road is a public roadway (subject to California motor vehicle laws). The main road and the surrounding Cleveland National Forest are there for the lawful enjoyment of anyone who choses to be there. The private land off of the road is well, private. Stay off of it. Unlawful activity to include but not limited to: illegal hunting, vandalism, illegal firearms(ie-maching guns)possession, drug activity, gang activity, assaults, illegal off road vehicles and general bad behavior will not be tolerated and delt with swiftly, by arrest and prosecution. Uniformed Officers patrol in marked vehicles and in plain clothes as hikers, bikers, hunters etc. for your safety. Please contact our office to report unauthorized activity or for further info. The address is Cleveland National Forest, L.E.&I 1147 East 6th Street Corona CA 92879. the 24 Hour emergency dispatch number for the Cleveland N.F. is 619-557-5262. My desk number is 951-736-1811. Enjoy the national Forest and be safe. Please note, *most mobile phones do not work in the canyon area*.
Officer Demarest a Die-hard Enthusiast riding a Ford Expedition Police Package from U.S.F.S Law Enforcement E-mail:this user
Posted on 11/28/04

[sauce]

Originally Posted by Keith B

Sarah and I rode blackstar last weekend before the Path movie and came down from Beeks in the dark. We were riding slowly on the way down because of my arm - just as well because when we came round the last dirt corner he'd put a railway sleeper across the trail! I had to stop and lift the bike over it because I can't lift the front end of the bike up, I'd have probably have come off if I hadnt seen it. About a mile before getting back to the gate his truck was parked in the middle of the trail with the lights off. As we cycled up to his truck he hung his head out of the window and said it was illegal to cycle in the canyon after dark.

I dragged him out of his truck by his stinking hair then lifted him off the ground by his scrawny neck with my uber strong right arm. After kneeing him in the balls a few times and screaming at him about land rights and not having the courage to become part of society I dropped him into a crumpled heap on the floor and decided to improve his odor by emptying my bladder all over him. I was about to ride off but figured it'd be curteous to put an STR sticker on his truck before leaving.

Anyway like I was saying he told us it was illegal to ride in the canyon after dark so I said 'OK, thanks' and we completed our ride. That was the first time I've had a run in with Art - it wouldnt worry me meeting him again but I wouldn't want Sarah to ride out there alone at night with his funkiness mooching about.

Sorry I seem to have lost time somewhere in writing that!

Baby, lay off the peanut butter, cheese, ginger and doritto sandwiches. Please.

[jcampbell]

Originally Posted by sauce

Baby, lay off the peanut butter, cheese, ginger and doritto sandwiches. Please.

Keith you should have whacked him with your bionic arm!

[Pain Freak]

Oh man, Keith got one of those too? Man, that guy gets it all.