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OMR

Ok... so it's a little like an RR. Rode up Holy Jim this morning at 7 am to meet people at the top of Upper Holy Jim. A whole group of riders came up from Inidan Truck Trail. Met at 10 am and all took off down Coldwater (except for 2 girls, one of whom had major front brake failure). They were the lucky ones!

Head's up: Coldwater has always been a very technical backcountry trail... well, now it's an extremely loose technical backcountry trail. Sometimes it didn't matter if you had brakes that worked... sometimes there was no controlling speed (very bad on this trail)... lot's of personal visits to the bushes lining the trail today. Gene perfected the OTH dismount (sometimes in spectacular fashion that drew gasps from the other riders!)

I on the other hand learned that too much front brake also causes bad things to happen on steep stuff! I never knew that my body could bend into such interesting shapes. The trail its self has become very unforgiving since last riding 4 weeks ago... much drier and loose... uhh, did I mention loose and?

Areas that we had easily ridden several weeks back were almost unrideable

If you didn't stay exactly on the middle of the trail at all times, your tires would wash out in the loose dirt on the sides... Many found this out with first hand visits to the bush.

I didn't have time for pictures... I was too busy trying to control the bike.

I was so worked by the time I got to the bottom, I caught a ride back rather than climb up Indian Truck Trail in the noon sun. Besides a taco salad was waiting for me at lunch just down the road. Several riders elected to ride back over... they haven't been seen since.

I'm not saying that we didn't have fun, as we all did; but, the purpose of this post is to advise others in the future that may attemp this trail prior to any rainfall... Be Advised: Coldwater is very loose and unforgiving and it will work you!

OMR

Geronimo

Thanks for the RR. Coldwater sounds like alot of fun. How long is it? Do you know how the climb is on indian TT? Thanks.

ocrider

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geronimo

Thanks for the RR. Coldwater sounds like alot of fun. How long is it? Do you know how the climb is on indian TT? Thanks.

its about 6 miles of no-technical fire road on dg. Its not bad. The hardest climb is on Md climbing to the top of cold water. Theres a pretty steep and loose 3 mile section that isnt easy.

genusmtbkr5

Ok, so I took a few diggers . No all kidding aside, it was challenging trying to go down with barely any front brakes, not that it would've helped. I lost my cell phone, get new cuts in my legs, but I had a blast! Greggs right, the trail is way loose and that fact that it was already pretty technical to begin with, there was alot of stepping off. I have no shame in that. I walked my bike down this 1 section, lost my footing a bit and slid for about 15 ft before I got footing again. I took a few great wipes, twice over the bars and a couple into the bushes when I couldn't slow in time around some of the switchbacks. All in all it was a great ride and I can't wait to ride it when the conditions are more favorable. Now for the pics. Sorry about the big gap between the top of Coldwater and bottom. Just wasn't any good spots to stand a take shots as riders went by. Lots of dust and from everyone skidding. Gregg, I'm glad you were well enough to make the ride afterall, it was great running into (err) riding with you.

Staging:

Indian Truck Trail:

The Views from ITT:

Back to climbing:

genusmtbkr5 · 07:21 PM

Indian Truck Trail/Main Divide Junction:

Continue up Main Divide:

What A View!

The top Of Upper Holy Jim:

ColdWater/Holy Jim Splits:

Coldwater:

Falling Tree Removal Crew:

Hike a Bike, 1 of several:

Re-group:

At the Bottom:

Carnage-Just Mine:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocrider

its about 6 miles of no-technical fire road on dg. Its not bad. The hardest climb is on Md climbing to the top of cold water. Theres a pretty steep and loose 3 mile section that isnt easy.

No kidding. That last climb before you get to the top Of Upper is pretty tough. You were right Matt, I should've mounted those Timberwolfs. I could've limit my crashes to 2 then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geronimo

Thanks for the RR. Coldwater sounds like alot of fun. How long is it? Do you know how the climb is on indian TT? Thanks.

It's tougher than Maple Springs, easier than Harding. To me anyway.

OMR

You are abosutely right... there's not a lot of places to stop and take pictures... especially on the steeper stuff. But great job of capturing the day with the pics.

Looking forward to doing the Traverse with you. I think it will actually be easier!

OMR

royta

Skidding? The only section that I can think of where there would be skidding would be the ridicurut after the flat spot. Sure, the primo 4 miles of Coldwater before that is soft, due to lack of use, but I still don't see why there would be skidding. The ridicurut isn't part of the original Coldwater Trail. Heck, the flat spot isn't a part of the original trail. Look at the attached .kmz file. The original trail heads North from the point marked "coldwater_1" and ends near Glen Ivy Hot Springs at "coldwater_2". The flat spot is at WP # 14. It would be awesome to recut the original trail and get rid of that gosh awful scar running straight down the mountain.

If you have Garmin MapSource with US Topo, you can open the attached .gdb file. That's where I got my info about the location of the original Coldwater Trail. You can also download a .gpx from HERE (right click - Save Target As), and open it with the same program. Although, you will need to rename the extension from .xml to .gpx. For some reason, even though the file is a .gpx file, it wants to be saved as an .xml file. Maybe it's a MS IE thing.

OMR

Quote:

Originally Posted by royta

Skidding? The only section that I can think of where there would be skidding would be the ridicurut after the flat spot.

Roy, normally, this would probably be true IF the trail wasn't so dry & loose. Add steep into the mix (which there are large sections of steep) and you get skidding. As I pointed out previously, we rode this trail several weeks before a couple of days after a rain and it was great...tacky and fast. Since that time, many more have ridden it and we haven't had a drop of water fall in the mountains. It's gotten dry loose and rutted. There were quite a few really good riders that were visiting the bushes quite regularly on this particular ride.

However, I do agree that there are several sections that if recut would reduce the steepness and hikey bike... but then it wouldn't be Coldwater would it?

Give it a go and see what you think and let us know. Just be careful and take the big nobbies!

OMR

Pain Freak

Yeah, CW is one of those trails that you almost have to work as hard going down as going up. This is not a novice trail, but not killer either. My second time doing it was much better knowing what to expect, but still with the steep pitch of some places, it will cause some sliding/skidding. Front brakes only work to send you OTB, and you almost have to ski down. I don't want to do any damage to it, and I know I can't ride it without chewing it up, so I'll wait till we get some rian before I head out there again.

I have to agree with Roy though as to a possible alternative route, maybe we could build a P-line that was more able to support long term use as I believe with a couple hard rains we will lose the present trail as it is built.

genusmtbkr5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pain Freak

Yeah, CW is one of those trails that you almost have to work as hard going down as going up. This is not a novice trail, but not killer either. My second time doing it was much better knowing what to expect, but still with the steep pitch of some places, it will cause some sliding/skidding. Front brakes only work to send you OTB, and you almost have to ski down. I don't want to do any damage to it, and I know I can't ride it without chewing it up, so I'll wait till we get some rian before I head out there again.

I have to agree with Roy though as to a possible alternative route, maybe we could build a P-line that was more able to support long term use as I believe with a couple hard rains we will lose the present trail as it is built.

I guess we know where the next trail maintenance is. Maybe I can find my cell phone.

royta

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pain Freak

I have to agree with Roy though as to a possible alternative route, maybe we could build a P-line that was more able to support long term use as I believe with a couple hard rains we will lose the present trail as it is built.

Mike, remember that gnarly washout when we rode it in April of 2006?

I cringe just thinking a trail was cut STRAIGHT down the mountain, not even close to where the original trail is.

Pain Freak

That's what I would consider rerouting. First to make the trail sustainable, not to dummy it down. I like the challenge as much as the next guy.

I wish I wasn't in the middle of my road training, I'd love to follow Gene back out there to look for his cell phone.

royta

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pain Freak

That's what I would consider rerouting. First to make the trail sustainable, not to dummy it down. I like the challenge as much as the next guy.

Yeah, I'm for challenge too, but a challenging trail shouldn't be a rut going straight down a mountain, especially if that rut is a diversion of the original trail. When I was there in April 2006, there wasn't even a single water bar. Regardless of the lack of erosion proofing, the final mile (from just before the flat spot) of the 5 mile Coldwater Trail shouldn't be there, period. It should never have been created. If I were the USFS, I'd be PISSED OFF at the lack of judgment shown by whoever routed it STRAIGHT down the mountain. For the life of me, I can't seem to find where IMBA endorses that type of trail. By the way, did the USFS give permission to go an entirely different direction from the original trail, and cut in that abomination? Who was the group? If you search the different MTB forums out there, there was talk of a trail clearing day on Coldwater to take place on 12/17/05. I can't imagine they would be the ones who diverted from the original trail, but you never know. Although, there is a post in October of 2005 talking about a big gnarly rut. Also, I recall PM'ing back and forth with Doug from egoladders.com and he told me about the big washout when the Coldwater Super Loop route was created in September of 2005. Hopefully the rerouting took place prior to the trail clearing day in December, and the local group isn't responsible for it.

Eventually, that straight down the mountain shot is going to be nothing but a big scar. I don't recall any real huge rain storms between April 2006 (the time I rode the trail) and now, so perhaps the rut going straight down the mountain hasn't increased in size. However, when the big rains come back, I believe it will turn that section into a very deep rut. Open up the attached .kmz file, a few posts earlier, with Google Earth. I think the trail should follow the original route. If it dummies the trail, so be it. We both know it won't dummy down the trail at all. It will only dummy the trail about as much as Holy Jim is a dummy trail.

Back in March of 2006, I was talking to somebody about Coldwater. He told me he was in contact with Glen Ivy Hot Springs about obtaining access to get to the original trail. A big NO is what he received. As far as I know, Glen Ivy Hot Springs is private property, and I'm not sure of the legalities of blocking a public trail. It could prove to be a very difficult battle. he thought a trail that is routed further to the South, which puts you back to the beginning of ITT could be an option.

Here is some correspondence between myself and the person mentioned in the previous paragraph:

Quote:

Originally Posted by royta

I can see by the Franko's map of the Santa Ana's that the original trail ends at Glen Ivy. It's too bad that (name of local group withheld due to third or maybe fourth hand info) built a trail that shoots straight down a mountain. That just doesn't make sense. Why would they do that? Pretty stupid really. I don't find bombing straight down a mountain on a rutted trail to be very fun at all. If it wasn't too steep, that would be one thing. Why didn't they build some switchbacks? Did they not know their trail was going to end at the rock quarry?

Quote:

Originally Posted by response

Yeah, they knew it was going to come out on private property and probably knew about the hole in the fence on the southeast corner of the quarry property. Scroll to the bottom of this page for the official listings and designations on trails in the Trabuco Ranger District. If the (name of local group withheld by royta due to third or maybe fourth hand info) said they didn't know it came out on private property, they are either liars, or very ineffective in not knowing this information as an advocacy group for the Trabuco Ranger District.

The upper section of the trail that they cleared is excellent and challenging with some really tight switchbacks. It's mostly a benchcut on a sidehill too, which makes it easy to maintain and will not get widened out by off-trail riding and the skirting of obstacles. If this trail was reopened correctly using the original trail down to the USFS boundary and cutting across to ITT, it would be one of the best in the Santa Anas.

My guess as to why they didn't do it right? Sheer laziness and the notion that those who poached the rut in see themselves somehow as extreeem or the likes. I rode down most of that rut and didn't find it fun at all because it was so steep and stupid for so long, hence ridicuruts.

It is a disservice to Corona, TemescalValley and LakeElsinore residents that this trail isn't being reopened properly.

Anyway, that is old correspondence, and I said some things about the local group that is hopefully untrue. The trail clearing took place in 12/05, but I've since done some reading that indicates the rut was already there. That rut wouldn't have even been seen prior to 12/05 if the trail had not already been rerouted an entirely different direction. So, it may not even matter who did the rerouting, but I feel it shouldn't have been to where it is, or how it is now. I think bringing it back to the original location would be nice, but you would end up even further away from the beginning of ITT then you do now. A completely new reroute to the beginning of ITT would be even better, and it would solve the future erosion problem the current reroute is going to become.

genusmtbkr5

Coldwater is in definite need of Trail maintenance. To re-route or to even cut some of the overgrown areas(not too many). At one point, we stopped because of a fallen tree. It was moved clear away from the trail. A P-line is not a bad idea in that it can be used when the direct route is too dry and loose. Here's somemore pics from that day.

dft

that last section in the pic is totally ridable now.
also, the last 2 times i rode it, there were NO ruts down the steep part, all ridable and very fun! i have ridden a few trails around that are that steep (bell ridge has a section that steep) and can be totally maintained. i truely love the last mile. the first 4 miles are also good. i'll admit that some of the switchbacks need work though.

freewheeler

I agree with DFT. Backcountry trails are just that, backcountry. They are not up to the same standards as the other trails. Take it as it is and ride it. The extreme nature is what makes it so fun (and challenging)! If you want the other type of experience there is always the fully loop.

royta

Quote:

Originally Posted by dft

that last section in the pic is totally ridable now.
also, the last 2 times i rode it, there were NO ruts down the steep part, all ridable and very fun! i have ridden a few trails around that are that steep (bell ridge has a section that steep) and can be totally maintained. i truely love the last mile. the first 4 miles are also good. i'll admit that some of the switchbacks need work though.


OMR Daughters = grey hair!	Coldwater - today (not an RR) Ok... so it's a little like an RR. Rode up Holy Jim this morning at 7 am to meet people at the top of Upper Holy Jim. A whole group of riders came up from Inidan Truck Trail. Met at 10 am and all took off down Coldwater (except for 2 girls, one of whom had major front brake failure). They were the lucky ones! Head's up: Coldwater has always been a very technical backcountry trail... well, now it's an extremely loose technical backcountry trail. Sometimes it didn't matter if you had brakes that worked... sometimes there was no controlling speed (very bad on this trail)... lot's of personal visits to the bushes lining the trail today. Gene perfected the OTH dismount (sometimes in spectacular fashion that drew gasps from the other riders!) I on the other hand learned that too much front brake also causes bad things to happen on steep stuff! I never knew that my body could bend into such interesting shapes. The trail its self has become very unforgiving since last riding 4 weeks ago... much drier and loose... uhh, did I mention loose and? Areas that we had easily ridden several weeks back were almost unrideable If you didn't stay exactly on the middle of the trail at all times, your tires would wash out in the loose dirt on the sides... Many found this out with first hand visits to the bush. I didn't have time for pictures... I was too busy trying to control the bike. I was so worked by the time I got to the bottom, I caught a ride back rather than climb up Indian Truck Trail in the noon sun. Besides a taco salad was waiting for me at lunch just down the road. Several riders elected to ride back over... they haven't been seen since. I'm not saying that we didn't have fun, as we all did; but, the purpose of this post is to advise others in the future that may attemp this trail prior to any rainfall... Be Advised: Coldwater is very loose and unforgiving and it will work you! OMR __________________ OMR .... An elder grasshopper of the Tribe


Geronimo STR Veteran	Thanks for the RR. Coldwater sounds like alot of fun. How long is it? Do you know how the climb is on indian TT? Thanks.


genusmtbkr5 Single Track Mind	Ok, so I took a few diggers . No all kidding aside, it was challenging trying to go down with barely any front brakes, not that it would've helped. I lost my cell phone, get new cuts in my legs, but I had a blast! Greggs right, the trail is way loose and that fact that it was already pretty technical to begin with, there was alot of stepping off. I have no shame in that. I walked my bike down this 1 section, lost my footing a bit and slid for about 15 ft before I got footing again. I took a few great wipes, twice over the bars and a couple into the bushes when I couldn't slow in time around some of the switchbacks. All in all it was a great ride and I can't wait to ride it when the conditions are more favorable. Now for the pics. Sorry about the big gap between the top of Coldwater and bottom. Just wasn't any good spots to stand a take shots as riders went by. Lots of dust and from everyone skidding. Gregg, I'm glad you were well enough to make the ride afterall, it was great running into (err) riding with you. Staging: Indian Truck Trail: The Views from ITT: Back to climbing: __________________ Gene"GuidesNewWarriors" *http://www.warriorssociety.org/* *http://www.sharemtb.com/*


OMR Daughters = grey hair!	Thanks for the pics, Gene! You are abosutely right... there's not a lot of places to stop and take pictures... especially on the steeper stuff. But great job of capturing the day with the pics. Looking forward to doing the Traverse with you. I think it will actually be easier! OMR __________________ OMR .... An elder grasshopper of the Tribe


Pain Freak Directionally Challenged	Yeah, CW is one of those trails that you almost have to work as hard going down as going up. This is not a novice trail, but not killer either. My second time doing it was much better knowing what to expect, but still with the steep pitch of some places, it will cause some sliding/skidding. Front brakes only work to send you OTB, and you almost have to ski down. I don't want to do any damage to it, and I know I can't ride it without chewing it up, so I'll wait till we get some rian before I head out there again. I have to agree with Roy though as to a possible alternative route, maybe we could build a P-line that was more able to support long term use as I believe with a couple hard rains we will lose the present trail as it is built. __________________ "The best rides are the ones where you bite off much more than you can chew—and live through it." — Doug Bradbury "When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me." — Emo Philips


dft Member	that last section in the pic is totally ridable now. also, the last 2 times i rode it, there were NO ruts down the steep part, all ridable and very fun! i have ridden a few trails around that are that steep (bell ridge has a section that steep) and can be totally maintained. i truely love the last mile. the first 4 miles are also good. i'll admit that some of the switchbacks need work though.


freewheeler Looking for new trails	Backcountry Trails I agree with DFT. Backcountry trails are just that, backcountry. They are not up to the same standards as the other trails. Take it as it is and ride it. The extreme nature is what makes it so fun (and challenging)! If you want the other type of experience there is always the fully loop.

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