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Waldo

Anyone who's ridden with me can attest to the fact that a blade of grass can be a formidable challenge for me to get over. Still, I respect challenging trails and the people who ride them well, and I have no desire to see them simplified.

Today I did the 'standard' loop around Whiting, and was pissed when I was coming down Serrano Cow Trail. For anyone who hasn't had the pleasure, it's a beautiful but basic, wide, flowing singletrack with only a couple spots that would cause a beginner to pucker up. One of those happens as you pass between a couple large trees. I'm sure many of you know it by heart: The approach is a quick zig over some embedded baseball-sized rocks, and then you have to clear a couple of decent-sized roots that are spaced about a foot further apart than the wheelbase of most bikes. Decent riders glide right over these, while newbies (including me on off days) will sometimes dab. Nothing life-threatening, and I've never even seen anyone go down there - just a minor disruption. Until now. Somebody took a saw to the roots of these live trees, clearing the second root out completely. No more obstacle.

WTF? Who does this sort of thing? Do they get permission, or just indiscriminately hack? Mini-Me on a tricycle would go right over those roots - there was no reason at all for that. How does this stuff happen, and how can we help?

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Just because the bike can do it doesn't mean the rider can!

gurp13

I never make a trail easier. In fact, I'll roll baby heads into the trail, just to give the next guy some extra practice on his skeelz.

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I may be a loser, but I'm not a quitter.

Waldo

Note to self: Try not to be the next guy after Gurp!

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Just because the bike can do it doesn't mean the rider can!

Chaos

Riding there tomorrow after work. Will keep and eye for that. If it's the section that I'm thinking of then that sucks. I just started to roll through that section rather than around.

S54MCoupe

Someone should bury cinder blocks and bricks where the roots were, just to make it harder and send a message to whoever cut em out.

dubjay

I noticed that about 2 weeks ago. It's down on Serrano, after a right hand sweeper that dips down - there used to be a double root section there right after the dip.

It looks like someone took a chainsaw to it and just took a big chunk of the 2nd root out.

tkblazer

this wouldn't be the first time this has been done on that particular section... it has been filled in with dirt to make it easier to roll over and now this.... it will never end sadly as those that do not wish to improve their skills will try to make it easier for them to ride.

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Guero: dayum, i wish i went. alarm went off and everything, even got a call from nam at 745 but i couldnt get out of my bed, it was too warm.

carbonman

I think that when people go and hack up the trails like this that they are not thinking. What makes matters worse is that then people that are just as stupid go the other direction and try to add new fetures to make the section more challenging. There is a section on the Fully Loop that just before the lake somebody filled in the concrete drainage ditch then some jerks dug up the trail before and after the ditch????? Why?? Are they trying to make it more challenging? ...Or is someone else trying to "sabotage" it so if you hit it at speed, you go over the bars. This ride is a "beginner/novice" ride, and there are plenty of opportunities to make it more challenging if you'd like withou this kind of thing. My son and I are heading up there with a shovel to fill in the holes.

PacMan

I hate that kind of stuff. It's bad when people do it on their own and it's bad when rangers/trail committees do it too.

There is a trail I used to ride all the time, but hardly ever do anymore after the rangers/land managers:

-- Ran a Bobcat down some singletrack to widen it

-- Bulldozed a fun rocky section so it was smooth

-- Closed/fenced off an entire trail and re-routed it with doubletrack wide, perfectly smooth switchbacks you could run a wheelchair up and down--all in the name of "habitat restoration". They closed a 20 year old, established trail and cut all new doubletrack to replace it. How does that make any sense? They had to plant vegetation on the section they closed.

-- Closed almost half the trail system for an indefinite period of time, for an unknown project.

I'm also worried about my local trail system. It is on land owned by the local Water District. They have it open as a park for horses, hikers and bikers. On Saturday's ride, I saw a bunch of suits walking around, all holding big, rolled up blueprint looking papers. I just pray I don't see the dreaded orange fences coming up soon.

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BJammin: Hey Mark, I FYM!!

RustyIron

Thanks Carb. That's mighty decent of you to make the effort.

2wheel_lee

I agree with the general sentiment above.

There are a couple local "trail maintenance/advocacy" groups who sanitize the trails so that people with all skill levels can safely ride any public trail without getting hurt. Unfortunately, they essentially destroy the trails for the rest of us who have been riding mountain bikes for more than a couple months.

I say let the ruts grow, let the bushes grow, leave the rocks alone, and just ride it as it is. Admittedly, that's just me being selfish. In my opinion - and I know this is very controversial - those who participated in a poker run on Saturday contributed to local trail destruction.

Waldo

Yep, that's the spot, and that's what it looks like. Not sure what else was done, but the whole thing seemed smoother than I remembered.

This one isn't really a section you can go around, due to the big trees on each side. But yeah, it took me a while to get to the point where I was making it over cleanly every time (as long as it wasn't wet in the little dip right before the roots). Not a big challenge by any means, but a nice little skills check.


I had the same thought! That, or mount a plaque there dedicated to the fool who did that, explaining the stupidity of what was done.

I haven't joined in any trail work yet, but want to. I'm curious though: When SHARE or another group goes out there, who decides how/when/where to modify trails or cut new ones? When they re-route a trail (like on Sage Scrub), do they do anything to 'restore' the closed part, or does restoration just consist of letting nature take its course? Are these collaborative efforts with hiking groups too? Is there are a requirement for on-site supervision by park staff or some sort of independent expert? I know this incident was probably someone freelancing, but I've seen some other trail "improvements" that I thought were a bit questionable as well.

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Just because the bike can do it doesn't mean the rider can!

RustyIron

Right on. In the rock climbing world, it's understood by ALL that modifying a route in any way is blasphemous. That even includes adding a fixed bolt on a section that might be dangerous. The route "belongs" to the first ascent party, and no one else has the right to change it.

Obviously, there are some different considerations on bike trails, but the sentiment should remain the same.

Now that it's springtime, some nice singletracks are becoming so grown over that they're virtually unnavigable. I'd much rather wait until autumn to ride these areas than have them widened, smoothed over, and turned into boring rides.

Rob

guero

that is pretty weak that someone took a saw to those roots. ive noticed over time that the dip before that section used to be more of a small drop (usually with water running through the area) that has in time evolved into a roll....not sure if that was dumbed down, or if it just happened over time.

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Kid A

What's next...this???? walk it if you can ride it or just wear lycra and hit the pavement

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Pilas

In response to Waldo, I was one of the people who participated in the re-routing of the Sage Scrub trail.
The section of the trail that was closed was getting too eroded. It was closed down to let ''nature take its course".
The trail work was performed by a group of mountain bikers from Team Velosport and a couple of people from Share. The trail work was supervised by one of the park's Rangers.
There is one thing that we mountain bikers tend to forget. Whiting Ranch and the other parks are not just "play grounds" for mountain bikers. There are other users as well who benefit from well maintained trails. Also, these parks serve as a much needed wildlife refuges.
Mountain bikers cause damage to the trails, and it is our responsibility to fix them as much as we can.
I'm pretty sure everybody on this board is a responsible mountain biker, but there are some people out there who are not. They cut across swchitch backs, lock their brakes all the time, and they even ride the trails when they are muddy, leaving tire tracks that stay on the trails for a long time. Those are some of the reasons why trails need to be fixed.
Don't forget that the people who volunteer to do trailwork give up their time to give back to the sport we love so much.
For those of you who are being so critical with the trail maintenance issues, I suggest you get involved with your local and national advocacy groups and find a way in which you can suppport the trails that give you the opportunity to have so much fun.

xhuskr

I agree that the challenge in Whiting is less with the new maintenance, but to keep the trails open, work has to be done. Whittier/Turnbull Canyon has been bulldozed recently and is no longer as fun, but with our extreme lack of water and high fire danger in almost every place we can ride...things need to be cut back/trimmed/groomed . Think about the long term and how change now will keep more trails open....longer! Thanks to SHARE and other trail groups as well as those individuals. Remember....it's these people that helped re-open Santiago Oaks. U can't bitch about that, can you?

rant/rave over...

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Slainte'

sdyeti I am a student. The trail is my teacher.
genusmtbkr5 Sign up for the pain, you'll love it.

Wrecker

The issues of changing trails to create an easier line aren't the same issues of trail maintenance.

I can tell you that all of the trail work SHARE does, and I'm sure other mtb groups as well, arise from need and necessity rather than easing a trail.

It is easy to say "let ruts grow" when you don't understand the overall effect of erosion on trails. If a rut continues to grow, without any efforts in re-routing the trail, or water bars, that rut will eventually cause the trail to slip off with the water flow (or erode). When you're missing an entire chunk of trail, it becomes difficult to navigate that trail and you end up with the route being closed off.

SHARE has also done some work around Rattlesnake and the single-track at the back of El Moro (not to mention the fact that they CREATED that single-track). The work on Rattlesnake was to close off a cheater section that riders were using to go around the difficult rocks. This cheater section not only widened the trail, but destroyed the habitat and wildlife surrounding the trail. This is the same type of work that they try to do on sections of trails with switchbacks where people cut across (hikers and riders), such as on Meadows.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for criticism, as it encourages growth in communities and their associated groups. But, that is only if it is derived from coherent, accurate, and educated assessment, understanding, and dissection of that which you are critiquing.

To criticize trail maintenance as sanitation is only to show your ignorance of trails, geology, erosion, wildlife, and the maintenance itself. If you wish to truly critique this, you must first learn it and find the true faults. Perhaps then, you can be a positive inspiration to the mountain biking world instead of just a negative "ninny".

Oh, and if you truly feel that participating and riding on trails maintained by mtn biking groups is wrong, perhaps you should exhibit that in protest by avoiding parks that participate in this "sanitation"--they would include all state and national forest parks.

Yep, I'm not on any group boards cause I'm too much of a biatch and ignorance/inaccurate statements are almost as much of a pet peeve of mine as lies.

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L8 APEKS

^^^
Kinda what he said, only much less verbose.

Yes, but if you think back in time, there was a point at which YOU had only been riding for two months. And I'm willing to bet that if you put yourself in the shoes (spandex?) of the current rookies, you would be singing a tune more akin to "Why are these trails so difficult? They should make some easier ones for people who are just learning like me."

There are plenty of ways to make things more challenging. Ride a rigid SS. Enter an Expert race. Take a harder route to fatigue yourself more before you reach the easy sections to force yourself to concentrate harder and dig deeper. But most of all, remember these parks and trails aren't MTB-specific. We came last, after the naturalists, hikers, and equestrians. Until we lobby as a group, come up with our own funds, and buy private land and THEN make it MTB-only, we will have to live with things the way they are. And you know what? I don't think they're that bad! We have a good amount of decent riding practically in our own back yards.

Is the glass half full, or half empty? That's up to you!

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-Sean
Current: KHS XC204
RIP: Elf, Hutch, Revcore, Auburn, GT, CW, Univega S7.7, Univega M7.3, Boulder Defiant, Manitou HT, Fisher Supercaliber, Manitou FS, Stumpjumper Pro M2, KHS Team ST

dstepper

Years later and I am still walking sections that I am not comfortable riding. But I do like it when trails get brushed, especially when that envolves getting the Poison Oak off the trail.

One of my favorites trails, Siberia Creek Trail in Big Bear is now unridable due to the brush. Mt. Zion was unridable before we brushed it. Many trails in this area need brushing every couple of years or we loose them. Rocks, ruts, roots leave them alone but if the trail gets overgrown none of that matters.

Dean

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If I'm not lost or getting bushwacked, the trail was too easy.

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