Trail issues.

[CPATCRASH]

OK. I thought I would post a letter just so everyone would be aware.

Hi All:
Some bad news on the trail access front: due to the actions on Serrano Ridge of some mtb-ers, the city of Irvine has put the kibosh on opening up more singletrack in Bommer Canyon. What's even worse, they may even remove the Turtle Island singletrack from the list altogether. Only Fox Run (Rock Bridge) will be opened in the near future.
Apparently, these mtbers really brushed back two historical trails, making them very wide, clear and totally obvious to everyone. Thinking that if these trails were seen as "existing" by the land managers, they would be grandfathered into the list of singletracks to be opened. Well, it certainly backfired and now all the plans to get the singletracks open in Bommer Canyon are screwed up.
The trails mentioned are in both Irvine Open Space and LCWP. What a slap in Ranger Larry's face, after all that he has done over the years for (and NOT done to), the bikers in his park. Larry is retiring next month, what a going away present, eh? Additionally, what a situation for Barbra Norton to inherit.
This is the first time ever that the actions of these trail fairies are affecting my access to trails. Up to now, we had been making steady (if slow) progress working with the system. In the Bommer Canyon area alone, 1 singletrack has come online, and two more are (were) on the list. Add these to the additions we have in the RMP for AWCWP (Car Wreck, Nestal, etc). Plus, who ever would have thought that Erection (Old Emerald), T&A (Laguna Ridge), Stair Steps and BVD (New Emerald Falls) would be available to multi-use?
This is measurable movement forward. I still have some naive hope that we can continue to make progress regarding opening up more trails in Bommer and LCWP, but if the mtb community keeps shooting itself in the foot by actions like this on Serrano Ridge and the other trespassing incident in the recent past, who knows?
This year will bring some changes to the way the SHARE club hosts its Tuesday rides also. Coming straight from the Pres, as of immediately, all club sanctioned rides (especially Tuesdays) will stay on the inventoried trails. Period. End of story. It's time we all walk the walk. Or maybe the club goes to the other side of the issue and removes the "Responsible Riding" from the club's motto. Replace that with "SHARE, the Little Lizards" instead.
Making a mountain out of a mole hill? Maybe, maybe not. Bottom line is, we have way too many folks riding these days, land managers are required to follow a phone-book thick list of rules, and managed access is a fact of life for some of the more pristine habitat in our area. The idea of mtb-ers being denied access to the trails is a real possibility. While you are free to choose to not believe it, doesn't make it any less true.

Happy Trails,
Keith Eckstein
President , SHARE

[guero]

Thanks for sharing and keeping us informed.

My only question is who was overseeing the trail maintenence/brushing back on Serrano Ridge? I thought the maintenence was done in conjuction with land owners or what not.

[Schecky]

I would guess that this was unauthorized trail work.
Is it confirmed that it was MTBers who did this? How do they know?
Just asking....

[andy aka rut]

Originally Posted by Schecky

I would guess that this was unauthorized trail work.
Is it confirmed that it was MTBers who did this? How do they know?
Just asking....

I think it is easiest for all to point the finger at mountain bikers. I do it....all the time.

The reality is it most likely is mountain bikers. I doubt hikers or horses are out there doing it. For years I have seen bikers coming into the parks with tools. I have always looked the other way too. Maybe it's time to stop looking the other way. I don't want to be a hall monitor, but I don't want the parks closed to mountain bikers either.
My difficulty is simple. I think the people opening up new trails know it is illegal, but it doesn't matter to them. I'm guessing I know some of them. It's a tough situation.

[CPATCRASH]

Originally Posted by andy aka rut

I think it is easiest for all to point the finger at mountain bikers. I do it....all the time.

The reality is it most likely is mountain bikers. I doubt hikers or horses are out there doing it. For years I have seen bikers coming into the parks with tools. I have always looked the other way too. Maybe it's time to stop looking the other way. I don't want to be a hall monitor, but I don't want the parks closed to mountain bikers either.
My difficulty is simple. I think the people opening up new trails know it is illegal, but it doesn't matter to them. I'm guessing I know some of them. It's a tough situation.

I have never helped build any but have ridden many of them. I'll miss it but want to still be able to ride the parks. We'll just have to watch Winstons old videos.

[Winger]

So close it. Have a trail destruction day and put up a large sign.

The average mtn biker has no idea about the politics of opening trails. It was mentioned that the trail already existed (was historical) so it seems interesting that having people work on this pre-existing trail caused such an uproar.

One could always look on the bright side....the unknown maintenance workers saved someone the effort of creating the new, legal, trails.

No, I didn't do it. I only ride Bommer during the scheduled night rides.

[gurp13]

To me, what's goofy about this is that it basically punishes everyone for the actions of a few. This talk of a "mountain bike community" is silly. What does that mean? Where are the meetings of this community? Where is the member list so we can start figuring out who did it?

I mean, when was the last time somebody shut down a trail because hikers left beer bottles on the trail? Or, have they shut down trails because equestrians left big hoof marks that eroded the tread? I just don't get this. There's always going to be retards who break the rules. We don't close down the public streets every time somebody speeds or drinks and drives.

Is this to suggest that I should tell people not to do things when I'm out riding? Where's my deputy badge? There's no way I'm going to tell guys what to do out on the trail. I'm not going to keep track of people doing trail maintenance, wearing helmets, skidding around singletracks or anything else. I would report it to a ranger if I saw one, but I'm not a cop.

[JamR]

Originally Posted by Winger

So close it. Have a trail destruction day and put up a large sign.

The average mtn biker has no idea about the politics of opening trails. It was mentioned that the trail already existed (was historical) so it seems interesting that having people work on this pre-existing trail caused such an uproar.

One could always look on the bright side....the unknown maintenance workers saved someone the effort of creating the new, legal, trails.

No, I didn't do it. I only ride Bommer during the scheduled night rides.

Historical or pre-existing is a relative term. The trail was always an illegal trail that was built without permission in an area that did not have any public access. This does not make it a historical trail.

Plus the trail is not on the scheduled inventory for the area, so doing the illegal cut was not doing anyone a favor.

It had just the opposite affect. We have spent time and money going through the proper channels to open up single tracks locally which involves numerous steps....ecological review of the trail, survey, mapping, getting input from user groups, permits, agency approvals, and inclusion into the RMP for the area.

This is the correct way to get a trail into a system that won't be questioned in the future.

Unfortunately the re-cut trails have already created increased trespassing into the currently unopened North Laguna Coast area and into the City Of Irvine Open Space Preserve, so plans for the completion of the other already sanctioned trails are on the back-burner until the current damage is rectified and the amount of trespassing subsides.

One poster above commented about the biking community suffering from the actions of a few. Well this is unfortunately the case....but I made the same challenge on the MTBR post.

Basically if you have 100 riders and 5 riders are causing bad relations with the public, why do most of the 95 good riders just sit back and do nothing.

I'm frustrated because the land managers get the short end of the stick here. Bikers snuck into a closed area and cut illegal trails, but the land managers will be seen as the bad guys for having to now spend time closing and monitoring those trails.

Here's the same challenge, how about a little peer pressure here from the 95 good riders. Call the rangers at Laguna Coast and set up a volunteer day to help them close and restore the two trails.

Unfortunately I don't have a lot of faith that this will happen, but it would be nice to see for once.

From the stats on the other post....the South Coast Wilderness once the Aliso-Woods RMP is implemented, Laguna Coast North is opened, and the Irvine Open Trails are approved and implemented.....there will be 59 legal biking trails in this 19,000 acre area that will span over 100 mile.

If that's not enough for the local mountain bikers, than we have a tough group to please.

Just my .02

Originally Posted by gurp13

To me, what's goofy about this is that it basically punishes everyone for the actions of a few. This talk of a "mountain bike community" is silly. What does that mean? Where are the meetings of this community? Where is the member list so we can start figuring out who did it?

I mean, when was the last time somebody shut down a trail because hikers left beer bottles on the trail? Or, have they shut down trails because equestrians left big hoof marks that eroded the tread? I just don't get this. There's always going to be retards who break the rules. We don't close down the public streets every time somebody speeds or drinks and drives.

Is this to suggest that I should tell people not to do things when I'm out riding? Where's my deputy badge? There's no way I'm going to tell guys what to do out on the trail. I'm not going to keep track of people doing trail maintenance, wearing helmets, skidding around singletracks or anything else. I would report it to a ranger if I saw one, but I'm not a cop.

Not quite the same as beer bottles and hoof damage.

These bikers poached into closed areas that are protected by the County and the state, and illegally cut trails without any of the regulations, permits or requirements that the rest of us (land managers) are legally bound to abide by.

This was a willful illegal act and does unfortunately reflect on our sport. The actions of a few do impact us all.

[spookydave]

Originally Posted by Schecky

I would guess that this was unauthorized trail work.
Is it confirmed that it was MTBers who did this? How do they know?
Just asking....

have you ever seen a hiker out doing trail work? I know I haven't.

[PHAT TIRE]

This is so sad. I was anticipated on riding some of the Irvine Reserve through their website. I will go to a meeting, write an email and get involved to keep the trail improvements going. I have never been involved with trail improvements. I know several have posted invites but my life has been crazy! I want to when the timing is right. But a meeting or an email I guess is the least I can do right now. Any suggestions? This forum would be a good way to mobilize the people on here to get involved.

[Pain Freak]

Here's the same challenge, how about a little peer pressure here from the 95 good riders. Call the rangers at Laguna Coast and set up a volunteer day to help them close and restore the two trails.
I'd come over from Fontana and I know I could get a couple other MTB'ers to join me, if somebody from this area (Orange County) wants to take point on this we will gladly jump in and do whatever we can to help mend some fences. I'll donate as much time as they feel is equal to the amount of damage that has been caused or whatever they feel is just.

Adam I understand your frustration, but let's not lose sight of the 95 who do it right. I agree, maybe we need to play cop somewhat and get some of this BS stopped. I know of no other place that gets poached as much as this area. I don't predict a bright future for mtb'ing in Orange County or at least south OC.

[dstepper]

As a Laguna local I am more than willing to donate my time and work.

Many of us Laguna locals are having a hard time adapting and accepting that things are changing. Laguna has always had a rebel underground MTBing scene that has created some great trails, but the run is over and it is time to get onboard and work with the powers to be.

Dean

[MTBMaven]

Originally Posted by JamR

Not quite the same as beer bottles and hoof damage.

These bikers poached into closed areas that are protected by the County and the state, and illegally cut trails without any of the regulations, permits or requirements that the rest of us (land managers) are legally bound to abide by.

This was a willful illegal act and does unfortunately reflect on our sport. The actions of a few do impact us all.

I completely agree with gurp on this one. His comments were my exact reaction. JamR I applaud all your efforts in helping the MTB community gain access to new trails. I know first hand the amount of work it takes to open access to trails.

The action's of the City of Irvine on this one are way too heavy handed. To deny access to mountain bikes because some bikers cleared a trail is asinine. There are wankers in every community. Hikers litter, cut switchbacks, make illegal fire pits, burn down forest, etc. Horses destroy meadows, $hit and piss all over the trail, leave deep hoof marks on the trail. We all mess up trails in some form or another when we don't use the outdoor respectfully. This is no reason to deny access to an entire group of users. The truth is erosion from water runoff on poorly designed and built trails is the main culprit for trail damage.

I hope Irvine will reconsider their knee jerk reaction to this incident. The Laguna/Irvine has a large MTB community. Closing more trails or not opening trails that were planed to be opened will not help anything. What the area needs is more trails that are designed properly and people to step up to helping to keep them in good shape.

I do think that mountain bikers need to walk the walk if they want trails to stay open in areas where they are threatened. If you see people riding and/or working on illegal trail something should be said. A nice friendly hello to hikers also goes a long way too. Bells help people hear us coming to lessen the chances of collisions. Right or wrong by default we are in the wrong to most people and it is up to us to change peoples minds...still.

Case in point, this past weekend while riding the Gab coming off Mt. Zion I told the biker in front of me "hiker up." The hiker yells up the trail "hiker up, I have right of way, I'm coming up." I tell him we know he has right of way and we are stopping. Once past him, and only a few feet away on the switchback below him, he tells his hiking partner 'these guys really destroy these trails.' Now keep in mind we were just finishing up our last day of trail maintenance day on the Mt. Zion Trail. A trail that people could hardly walk before we started our work. After 7 different trail maintenance events, over 6 months, and hundreds of hours of work, mountain bikers opened a trail for use by everyone; a trail that the Sierra Club supposedly had adopted and was responsible for maintenance. I really wanted to unload on this guy, it really pissed me off. I thought at the time I was not going to change his mind; but that was the opportunity politely educate this person that mountain biker do give back to the whole community.

(Begin shameless plug) The more hikers and horsey people see mountain bikers doing trail work the better our reputation becomes. I encourage everyone who reads this to get involved in some form of trail maintenance. It is one of the most rewarding thing for a mountain biker to do. Get involved with your local trail crew and help better our reputation.

Someone from one of these groups mentioned, SHARE I think, needs to organize something to help out. I like Mike's idea of helping to fix the mess. If you organize it people will come. Just publicize the hell out of it on all the boards and post flier at shops people will show up. Look at me, I was just some dude who wanted to cut down bushes. With a little bit of initiative and perseverance we did some kick ass work. You don't have to be anyone special or have any special skills. Just make it happen and run with it.

[Schecky]

I wonder why this incident is causing such a strong reaction from the county, but there was no reaction to the confirmed trespassing by the mountain hiking/running community that was posted in the OC Register?

[JamR]

MTBMaven,

Some not quite accurate information is stated here. Irvine is not shutting trails down, but your post pretty much makes one of my points.

Mountain bikers trespass into areas that are not yet opened to the public, cut illegal trails, cause increased trespassing before the area is ready for access with proper signs and maps; thus requiring the land managers to focus on getting these trails repaired instead, and deal with increased trespassing; and we're labeled as the bad people with knee-jerk reactions.

These actions simply are not the same as weather erosion, hooves, tire ruts, etc... Again this was a willful illegal act that has caused increased trespassing into areas that are not opened to the public yet.

It would be irresponsible for me to go ahead with the final preparations of the already approved single track since it will also be very visible from the top of the ridge, and will only add to the problems that these bikers created. I have a responsibility to the City of Irvine Open Space Preserve property to help manage the area, and that includes designing and maintaining their trails; working with the ecologists to maintain the habitat; and working with the Irvine Open Space Patrol Rangers as needed. A new trail from the ridgeline heading into the canyon will just be a draw for more trespassing deeper into the area. Trail repairs, trespassing, signs, and gates need to take priority over new trails.

It would be irresponsible for me to do anything that would invite additional trespassing into the area, so the bottom line is that this illegal intrusion into these areas and the damage to the habitat have pushed other items to a higher priority than the added legal single-tracks.

Land managers did not create this issue, but as usual, they are left to clean up the mess. Having to follow user groups around and put up closed trail or closed area signs on unauthorized trails is not the best use of our time.

There are too many positive things happening right now in these areas and we simply did not need rouge riders cutting trails at this time. These riders need to realize that the days of finding it, cutting it, and riding it are over. Trails need to be planned, permitted, and built legally. There's no shortcuts on this issue.

Just put the blame where it is due....on the bikers.

The best thing bikers can do is to simply stop cutting trails, stop riding non-sanctioned trails, and stop trespassing in unauthorized areas; and give Laguna Coast the opportunity to get the north area ready for opening.

We need to put our efforts into more peer pressure within our own groups and reduce these types of problems. These were not magic elves that did these trail cuts......and there are obviously some responsible riders who know the people who did this, and they should be putting pressure on them to stop these actions.

Here's a real novel concept.....how about pressuring the riders who cut the trails to come forward themselves, get with Larry and Barbara, and repair the trails themselves. That would be the best solution of all, but unfortunately highly doubtful.

Just make sure that these posts place the blame where it belongs.......not on the land managers.

Thanks, and see ya on the trails

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Nuff said on this issue for me……going to put my efforts back into the trails where they belong now.[/SIZE][/FONT]

Originally Posted by Schecky

I wonder why this incident is causing such a strong reaction from the county, but there was no reaction to the confirmed trespassing by the mountain hiking/running community that was posted in the OC Register?

Probably because no one is really sure exactly where they ran through. I read the story, but could not tell for sure where they went, plus the story was after-the-fact. If they indeed were in a closed area and were found by the Rangers, they would have been stopped and turned around like everyone else.

Plus can you really compare runners running on a trail to people trespassing with tools and cutting illegal trails?

[andy aka rut]

[quote=JamR;49680]
Just put the blame where it is due....on the bikers.

JamR-
The way I read that statement sounds like you are blaming all the bikers. I know that isn't the case, but that is how it sounds to me.

What about some of the new trails (illegal, I know) in El Moro. I know it isn't your area, but I know the rangers know about the trails yet there are still stunts on them; bridges and such. The rangers are not removing them. This gives the perception to the people who have been riding these trails that it is OK to ride them. If the authorities know about them, they need to remove the trails. I just can't believe they "don't have time to do it." If it is that important, they need to make the time.
Personally, I know a person can get a $551 ticket for riding a bike in a county park after dark. What kinda of punishment can be handed out to people for building an illegal trail? Is it jail time? $100? Maybe if people knew it was $1500 and 100 hours of community service they might think twice before doing something like that.

Jamr, as the land manager of the area, can you organize a "trail clean up" on the illegal trails? Can I help you with this? If we can agree on a date, I will post it on several boards and maybe we can help resolve the issue. When a trail "pops up" again, you let me know and I can get a posse together to make it natural again. How does that sound?
PM and I'll get you me email (if you already don't have it.)

[Schecky]

Originally Posted by JamR

Plus can you really compare runners running on a trail to people trespassing with tools and cutting illegal trails?

I'm not trying to compare the two, just wishing for equal treatment. The trail cutting hurts us all.
If there is a trail erase day, I will be there.