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dstepper · 11-11-2006, 02:38 PM

Larry's Trail (well that's the name for now), Laguna Coast Wilderness Park, Laguna Beach, CA.

Good showing, 15-20 people, Shimano trail crew was a no-show. Section completed from Willow Staging Area to near 37 Toll Road.

I am not one to tell people what to do and I realize that people do not have as much free time as I do. With partime work and no family I can do many things most of you guys can't. This rant does not apply to everyone, and please take offense if it does apply to you...it is meant to.

STR's showing today was poor, Johnny Dirt (John) and I. Yes Adam and Chelle were their and they can post there own feelings. I am disappointed with the lack of "giving it back" buy the STR Crew. As I was working on the new trail, I was thinking of all the people I know that hunk that rock on the top of T&A and how the transition looks like a strip mining operation now....where were those people today. Laguna Beach seems to be the only place that is actually adding new legal singletrack in the county. This new section will be a fun addition to the Park.

We can complain about what is not right with our Land Managers but in this case they are doing a good thing...support them if you can.

Rant and Guilt Trip Over.

Special Thanks to IMBA and Share.

Ride in Peace, Dean

gurp13 · 11-11-2006, 03:08 PM

I agree with Dean. My excuse for today was that I had paid to ride the Tour de Foothills. With four kids and being the drama director at school, it's all I can do to get in my weekly ride. But, I'd be willing to give up a ride here and there to do work. Admittedly, though, I would rather work in my own backyard, say, fixing the San Sevaine singletrack or building more in the hills here than driving 40 miles to Irvine and working on trails I probably wouldn't ride often, if at all.

dstepper · 11-11-2006, 03:21 PM

I know Glen will understand...my comment concerning working on a trail that is not in your back yard and one that you may or may not ever use is...Reciprocity. To those that don't understand, look it up, it will help you in life.

gurp13 · 11-11-2006, 03:50 PM

I see what you're saying and I don't disagree. But, by the same token... if they called for people to work on Marshall Cyn, then I'd feel pretty obligated to show up. And, I think that people who live in Irvine or right near there ought to feel obligated to maintain those trails. I know what you mean that there's a karmic sense to trail work. But, also, if everybody took care of the trails closest to them, then we'd still be in good shape. Or no?

On another board that I frequent, we use a very useful phrase for situations like this... "Or I could just fu** off." Think what a better world this would be if people used this. "I think I'll invade this country because the people will greet my army as liberators. Or, I could just fu** off." Just an example. So, I will use it now.

Or, I could just f*ck off.

TURNERob · 11-11-2006, 04:14 PM

Dean, since I'm one of those "rock hunkers" I guess I'll respond. I work Saturdays, so I was underneath cars all day long. I know there is some trail work scheduled on Sundays I believe, I'll see if some of my fellow "rock hunkers" would like to go help out on a Sunday. It's just hard when Sunday is the only day I have to ride with friends since I really can't ride during the week now with daylight savings time kicked in. Monday is my other day off but obviously there usually isn't any trail work scheduled then. I wish I had as much free time as you, but with my job being so busy and the wifey talking about kids......I'm only gonna have less and less time

I am curious to check out these trails so I will definately try and see if I can make the Sunday trail work day

dstepper · 11-11-2006, 04:28 PM

Rob, I know you work on Saturdays and I thought about giving you a pass before a posted my rant. It was just that I saw people posting rides competing with trail work.

And by the way, why are so many people posting new rides when someone had already posted a ride at the same time. That has happened to me and it kind of hurt my feelings. I got over myself but stopped post as many rides.

By the way, who wants to ride Mt. Waterman before it snows? With maybe some Burkhart for extra miles? Once it snows on Waterman it can stay snowed in until late spring/early summer.

JamR · 11-11-2006, 04:28 PM

No rant here......just pushing the guilt buttons

Pitching in to do trail work just makes good sense, and people should take advantage of working on the trails in their "backyard" or trails that they frequent.

Mountain bikers do put tons of effort into building and maintaining trails all over the country, but what I've seen in the past 2 decades is that it's typically the same small group of riders who show up for these events over and over.

I know in my management area some people don't want to chip in because the trails are not open 7 days per week as pointed out yesterday; but in the case of Laguna Coast Wilderness Park, many of the STR riders frequent this park 50+ times per year. So if Laguna Coast does not warrant riders showing up for a new single track trail build, what does?

This year trail work has been done on numerous trails in Laguna Coast, El Moro, Whiting Ranch, Aliso Woods, the Oaks, the Luge, the Flying "B", and tons of trails in the Cleveland National Forest. All it takes is 3 to 4 hours away from your biking time once a year to help out.

I've been involved in 9 trail sessions this year alone and know some riders who routinely hit the trails with their tools several times per month. Any rider who uses any of the trails in O.C. should have been able to make it to at least 1 trail work session this year. No one posting on these boards is so busy they can't find 3 to 4 hours a year to help maintain a trail.

We're just now coming into the beginning of the trail maintenance and trail building season and there will be plenty of opportunities to chip in. I hope to see more riders from this board out on the trail work days.

Mountain biking is not just about the ride, it's about making sure the sport thrives for future generations; and a very big part of that depends on the health of the trails we ride, and the commitment of riders to put something back into the sport.

Just skip one ride per year and show up to a trail work session, and the sport will be better for your efforts.

See ya on the trails.

Dean, Johnny & Dillon, and Chelle.....thanks for the help today. This is going to be one sweet trail when it's completed.

Also a big thanks to IMBA, SHARE, and Rangers Larry & Barbara for making this happen.

Pain Freak · 11-11-2006, 04:50 PM

Adam, your efforts are greatfully appreciated. I'm not aware of you riding anything much, but these OC trails. Do you ever get over to the San Gabriels or Santa Monicas? I wish we had some people like OC does up this way. I try every year to give at least one day to each of the surrounding mountain ranges.

LBmtb · 11-11-2006, 04:56 PM

Never done the top rock huck so I guess that puts me in the clear.

I've done work at ted craig park (which I never ride in) and the flying B. Also signed up for the 19th day. Sorry I couldn't go today, working on the redesign all week means I gotta play catch-up on some homework.

Thanks adam, dean, and others like you for helping out the trails. No trails = no mountain biking. We can't have that, now can we?

JamR · 11-11-2006, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBmtb

Never done the top rock huck so I guess that puts me in the clear.

I've done work at ted craig park (which I never ride in) and the flying B. Also signed up for the 19th day. Sorry I couldn't go today, working on the redesign all week means I gotta play catch-up on some homework.

Thanks adam, dean, and others like you for helping out the trails. No trails = no mountain biking. We can't have that, now can we?

Saw your name on the roster today. Thanks for signing up. Should be a fun trail build that day.

mtnbikej · 11-11-2006, 05:08 PM

I might have been out there today...but unfortunately or fortunately, we had open practice today at the Flying B for next weeks Fall Classic.

However, as the trail designer and builder at the Flying B, I can see your displeasure with the amount of help. I have close to 150 hours of trail building out at the Flying B on the race course since January. Getting volunteers to help is usually kinda tough. You might get them to come out once, been then you never see them again. They see that it is hard work building/maintaining trails. Most would rather go ride than help out. So the work typically gets done by a small handful. I put call outs here on this board several times this year when it came to building trails at the Flying B.....many said they would come out.....in the end the only one I saw was George. I know many of the posters on this board have raced at least one of the races, however none could take a day off of riding to help out. Which is fine, they are not paid, they are volunteers. Unfortunately you cannot make people volunteer, they have to do it on their own.

Ok.... I lost where I was going......so good for you for helping out today. I am sure that Adam appreciated the work.

mtnbikej

JamR · 11-11-2006, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pain Freak

Adam, your efforts are greatfully appreciated. I'm not aware of you riding anything much, but these OC trails. Do you ever get over to the San Gabriels or Santa Monicas? I wish we had some people like OC does up this way. I try every year to give at least one day to each of the surrounding mountain ranges.

I know you you get out on the trails with your tools (the bridge at the Luge is still holding up nicely).

I do get out of O.C. whenever I can. I was riding the Santa Monica's pretty regularly when I had a project going on at the SM pier, and I've gone away a few times this year for biking (Mammoth, Brianhead, New Mexico, Idyllwild, Julian), so I'm not always a homeboy.

See ya

a pic from the past

dstepper · 11-11-2006, 05:20 PM

Mtnbikej, Tell me if I am wrong. I see a difference between donating my time to public access compared to donating time to private property. I have never asked, can those of us that aren't Warriors go out there and ride when we want?

I know, parts of the property that Adam manages cann't be ridin' without a docent...I hope that will change someday. I do not see Flying B changing into public lands. With due respect, I do not think the comparisions are equal.

11-11-2006, 07:12 PM

i hunk on t&a and wasnt even aware of the trail work going on today. i understand your views on reciprication and see where you are coming from Steppie. i work my ass off m-f and when the weekend comes i often have lots of stuff going on. im barely able to squeeze in a ride on sunday mornings...not only that but living up in long beach, lcwp isnt really that close to me and i cant just get there in 15 minutes. i have no problems with donating some time for trail work, a year ago or so i actually did some trail work on the fullerton loop of all places.

im not sure if im down with you flaming us hunkers though who werent able to make it out to do trail work today, i know you didnt really mean it as a direct attack, but more of a wake-up call to give back to the trails.

dstepper · 11-11-2006, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by i am dino

im not sure if im down with you flaming us hunkers though who werent able to make it out to do trail work today, i know you didnt really mean it as a direct attack, but more of a wake-up call to give back to the trails.

You are right my intention is not to attack anyone. Just a observation on the damage being done to that section of trail and the potential for that damage to be used against us down the road. The park has tried in the past to block off that section of trail. We need all the good will we can muster to offset some of the things I know we all do...including myself.

I thought about how my rant would be recieved before I posted it. Pretty much the people that replied were the people I thought would reply and in a way I anticipated....other's silence is telling. I did it to get people thinking a little about how spoiled we are, how complacent we become in taking things for granted. I am luckly I like trail work and do not find most of it hard work. It is rewarding riding sections of new trail I helped build or restore.

dhshuttlemonkey · 11-11-2006, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dstepper

And by the way, why are so many people posting new rides when someone had already posted a ride at the same time. That has happened to me and it kind of hurt my feelings. I got over myself but stopped post as many rides.

Dean, it's all about variety. Not everyone likes the same type of riding or driving too far out of the way for a ride. We all love to ride, some prefer XC, some like DH, and others like road riding and post rides accordingly. For example, I'm not training for VQ/CC so I'm not going to join any of those climb fests up Blackstar or Motorway. I'm getting ready for a DH race, so I'm going to ride a lot more DH shuttle rides and ride with guys who like the same thing.

As for trail maintenance, I agree with Gurp. I'm not driving 40 miles to do trail work on a trail I've only riden once and I definately won't go work on a trail that limited access. I'd rather work on a trail in my own backyard and give back to the trails I actually ride. I wish someone would organize a trail work day in the San Gab's on the Upper/Middle Merrill trail system because it needs work badly.

dstepper · 11-11-2006, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTBRacer

Dean, it's all about variety. Not everyone likes the same type of riding or driving too far out of the way for a ride. We all love to ride, some prefer XC, some like DH, and others like road riding and post rides accordingly. For example, I'm not training for VQ/CC so I'm not going to join any of those climb fests up Blackstar or Motorway. I'm getting ready for a DH race, so I'm going to ride a lot more DH shuttle rides and ride with guys who like the same thing.

As for trail maintenance, I agree with Gurp. I'm not driving 40 miles to do trail work on a trail I've only riden once and I definately won't go work on a trail that limited access. I'd rather work on a trail in my own backyard and give back to the trails I actually ride. I wish someone would organize a trail work day in the San Gab's on the Upper/Middle Merrill trail system because it needs work badly.

Frank as usual, you are right. I forgot I should call you before expressing my opinions on this forum. Appearantly you did not look up the meaning of Reciprocity. Mt. Zion is not in my back yard and as you know it is a major effort just to get to where the trail work is. And I know I am more willing than most to drive to get to a ride.

For your information: Larry's Trail will not be limited access once it is open. It will be a major dirt connector parralleling Laguna Canyon Road. You are confusing that with some other trail work Adam is organizing.

dhshuttlemonkey · 11-11-2006, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dstepper

You are right Frank, I forgot I should call you before expressing my feelings on line. Appearantly you did not look up the meaning of Reciprocity.

First, I do know what reciprocity means and didn't have to look it up. Second, you don't have to get your e-feelings all butt hurt, rant, and whine just because people don't show up for one day of trail maintenance. It's only and online forum and you are getting way too grumpy lately. Take a chill pill and go ride.

Evel Knievel · 11-11-2006, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamR

I know you you get out on the trails with your tools (the bridge at the Luge is still holding up nicely).

I do get out of O.C. whenever I can. I was riding the Santa Monica's pretty regularly when I had a project going on at the SM pier, and I've gone away a few times this year for biking (Mammoth, Brianhead, New Mexico, Idyllwild, Julian), so I'm not always a homeboy.

See ya

a pic from the past

That is one fine bridge you got there JamR.

More work next weekend ?

11-11-2006, 03:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
gurp13 SolarFederationMember	I agree with Dean. My excuse for today was that I had paid to ride the Tour de Foothills. With four kids and being the drama director at school, it's all I can do to get in my weekly ride. But, I'd be willing to give up a ride here and there to do work. Admittedly, though, I would rather work in my own backyard, say, fixing the San Sevaine singletrack or building more in the hills here than driving 40 miles to Irvine and working on trails I probably wouldn't ride often, if at all. __________________ I may be a loser, but I'm not a quitter.

11-11-2006, 03:21 PM	#3 (permalink)
dstepper Over the Hill	I know Glen will understand...my comment concerning working on a trail that is not in your back yard and one that you may or may not ever use is...Reciprocity. To those that don't understand, look it up, it will help you in life. __________________ If I'm not lost or getting bushwacked, the trail was too easy. Prescott Valley Houses The Path

11-11-2006, 03:50 PM	#4 (permalink)
gurp13 SolarFederationMember	I see what you're saying and I don't disagree. But, by the same token... if they called for people to work on Marshall Cyn, then I'd feel pretty obligated to show up. And, I think that people who live in Irvine or right near there ought to feel obligated to maintain those trails. I know what you mean that there's a karmic sense to trail work. But, also, if everybody took care of the trails closest to them, then we'd still be in good shape. Or no? On another board that I frequent, we use a very useful phrase for situations like this... "Or I could just fu off." Think what a better world this would be if people used this. "I think I'll invade this country because the people will greet my army as liberators. Or, I could just fu off." Just an example. So, I will use it now. Or, I could just f*ck off. __________________ I may be a loser, but I'm not a quitter.

11-11-2006, 04:28 PM	#6 (permalink)
dstepper Over the Hill	Rob, I know you work on Saturdays and I thought about giving you a pass before a posted my rant. It was just that I saw people posting rides competing with trail work. And by the way, why are so many people posting new rides when someone had already posted a ride at the same time. That has happened to me and it kind of hurt my feelings. I got over myself but stopped post as many rides. By the way, who wants to ride Mt. Waterman before it snows? With maybe some Burkhart for extra miles? Once it snows on Waterman it can stay snowed in until late spring/early summer. __________________ If I'm not lost or getting bushwacked, the trail was too easy. Prescott Valley Houses The Path

11-11-2006, 04:28 PM	#7 (permalink)
JamR STR Veteran	No rant here......just pushing the guilt buttons Pitching in to do trail work just makes good sense, and people should take advantage of working on the trails in their "backyard" or trails that they frequent. Mountain bikers do put tons of effort into building and maintaining trails all over the country, but what I've seen in the past 2 decades is that it's typically the same small group of riders who show up for these events over and over. I know in my management area some people don't want to chip in because the trails are not open 7 days per week as pointed out yesterday; but in the case of Laguna Coast Wilderness Park, many of the STR riders frequent this park 50+ times per year. So if Laguna Coast does not warrant riders showing up for a new single track trail build, what does? This year trail work has been done on numerous trails in Laguna Coast, El Moro, Whiting Ranch, Aliso Woods, the Oaks, the Luge, the Flying "B", and tons of trails in the Cleveland National Forest. All it takes is 3 to 4 hours away from your biking time once a year to help out. I've been involved in 9 trail sessions this year alone and know some riders who routinely hit the trails with their tools several times per month. Any rider who uses any of the trails in O.C. should have been able to make it to at least 1 trail work session this year. No one posting on these boards is so busy they can't find 3 to 4 hours a year to help maintain a trail. We're just now coming into the beginning of the trail maintenance and trail building season and there will be plenty of opportunities to chip in. I hope to see more riders from this board out on the trail work days. Mountain biking is not just about the ride, it's about making sure the sport thrives for future generations; and a very big part of that depends on the health of the trails we ride, and the commitment of riders to put something back into the sport. Just skip one ride per year and show up to a trail work session, and the sport will be better for your efforts. See ya on the trails. Dean, Johnny & Dillon, and Chelle.....thanks for the help today. This is going to be one sweet trail when it's completed. Also a big thanks to IMBA, SHARE, and Rangers Larry & Barbara for making this happen. __________________ See ya on the trails

11-11-2006, 04:14 PM	#5 (permalink)
TURNERob I need a tow truck ASAP	Dean, since I'm one of those "rock hunkers" I guess I'll respond. I work Saturdays, so I was underneath cars all day long. I know there is some trail work scheduled on Sundays I believe, I'll see if some of my fellow "rock hunkers" would like to go help out on a Sunday. It's just hard when Sunday is the only day I have to ride with friends since I really can't ride during the week now with daylight savings time kicked in. Monday is my other day off but obviously there usually isn't any trail work scheduled then. I wish I had as much free time as you, but with my job being so busy and the wifey talking about kids......I'm only gonna have less and less time I am curious to check out these trails so I will definately try and see if I can make the Sunday trail work day

11-11-2006, 04:50 PM	#8 (permalink)
Pain Freak Directionally Challenged	Adam, your efforts are greatfully appreciated. I'm not aware of you riding anything much, but these OC trails. Do you ever get over to the San Gabriels or Santa Monicas? I wish we had some people like OC does up this way. I try every year to give at least one day to each of the surrounding mountain ranges. __________________ "The best rides are the ones where you bite off much more than you can chew—and live through it." — Doug Bradbury "When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me." — Emo Philips

11-11-2006, 04:56 PM	#9 (permalink)
LBmtb good times	Never done the top rock huck so I guess that puts me in the clear. I've done work at ted craig park (which I never ride in) and the flying B. Also signed up for the 19th day. Sorry I couldn't go today, working on the redesign all week means I gotta play catch-up on some homework. Thanks adam, dean, and others like you for helping out the trails. No trails = no mountain biking. We can't have that, now can we?

11-11-2006, 05:08 PM	#11 (permalink)
mtnbikej Warrior Society Member	I might have been out there today...but unfortunately or fortunately, we had open practice today at the Flying B for next weeks Fall Classic. However, as the trail designer and builder at the Flying B, I can see your displeasure with the amount of help. I have close to 150 hours of trail building out at the Flying B on the race course since January. Getting volunteers to help is usually kinda tough. You might get them to come out once, been then you never see them again. They see that it is hard work building/maintaining trails. Most would rather go ride than help out. So the work typically gets done by a small handful. I put call outs here on this board several times this year when it came to building trails at the Flying B.....many said they would come out.....in the end the only one I saw was George. I know many of the posters on this board have raced at least one of the races, however none could take a day off of riding to help out. Which is fine, they are not paid, they are volunteers. Unfortunately you cannot make people volunteer, they have to do it on their own. Ok.... I lost where I was going......so good for you for helping out today. I am sure that Adam appreciated the work. mtnbikej __________________ http://www.switchbackcyclery.com http://warriorssociety.org

11-11-2006, 05:20 PM	#13 (permalink)
dstepper Over the Hill	Mtnbikej, Tell me if I am wrong. I see a difference between donating my time to public access compared to donating time to private property. I have never asked, can those of us that aren't Warriors go out there and ride when we want? I know, parts of the property that Adam manages cann't be ridin' without a docent...I hope that will change someday. I do not see Flying B changing into public lands. With due respect, I do not think the comparisions are equal. __________________ If I'm not lost or getting bushwacked, the trail was too easy. Prescott Valley Houses The Path

11-11-2006, 07:12 PM	#14 (permalink)
i am dino Guest	i hunk on t&a and wasnt even aware of the trail work going on today. i understand your views on reciprication and see where you are coming from Steppie. i work my ass off m-f and when the weekend comes i often have lots of stuff going on. im barely able to squeeze in a ride on sunday mornings...not only that but living up in long beach, lcwp isnt really that close to me and i cant just get there in 15 minutes. i have no problems with donating some time for trail work, a year ago or so i actually did some trail work on the fullerton loop of all places. im not sure if im down with you flaming us hunkers though who werent able to make it out to do trail work today, i know you didnt really mean it as a direct attack, but more of a wake-up call to give back to the trails.

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