Palm Canyon/Art Smith Epic Ride Report

[pshloss]

Here's my brief summary with some pics:

Nine guys started, but 1 turned back pretty quick (it was his first ride!). Another group of 8 started at the same time, so we rode in a giant group for about 2/3 of the ride. This is an awesome ride- mile upon mile (22 miles?) of singletrack- most of it technical in some way (loose, rocky, or steep). The ride up the sandy wash was tough- took its toll on many. Art Smith Trail was very cool- even more technical ups and downs. At least 4 endos and plenty of scrapes. A few cramps. We got done before dark. Definitely a fun group with great attitude. BEER me.

[Epic_Mtn_Biker]

Thanx for posting pix, so quickly, Pete!!!

Definitley a great ride today, a couple of spills, good cramps and a lot of heat. over all, we no wild problems, all had fun and won't forget this ride anytime soon!! Everyone did an excellent job out there!!

Stat's:
Miles: 26.01
Actual ride time: 4:14
Total ride time: just under 7 hours
Singletrack: ~22 miles

Palm Canyon was in a lot better shape than last time, someone had done some trail maintenance & in some places it was clear of excess brush. still rocky as ever. the wasah that lead to Dunn Rd. was a lot more rideable than last time, not so much loose sand. last time it was a 3 mile death march on a sandy wash. Art Smith Trail proved to be a bit more challenging since by the time we got to it we had done ~19 miles fatigue was setting in so we were a lot more cautious. the final stretch of Art Smith was rerouted & that took us on a new singletrack that was just superb!! it made for a great finish!!

The weather was great, it was warm with a slight breeze & the scenery was spectacular

Hope more of you can join us on our next venture out there!!

[Pain Freak]

Sorry I missed this time guys. But something came up and I had to be home before we would have finished, so I ended up doing some road riding (100 milesin 6 hours flat) and made it home with plenty of time to spare. This is the route I usually do when I ride out there and now I'm bummed because I missed it, but I did get to ride it a month or so ago. What time did you guys start?

[ECOdork]

Damn that looks cool! Another one I hope to join next time around....

[ShinKen]

Hey Pete!! thanks for taking all those cool pics!! I've PM my email so u can send the rest of them. (if u can he he). Yep that ride was soo freaking cool!! gotta do it again soon!!

[Epic_Mtn_Biker]

I forgot to mention:

Big time props to: RIDE2LIVE for doing the whole thing on a SS, he was the only one SS'ing it. i rode his bike for a while (less than a mile) and just couldn't believe how different it was!! (i'll still with my 26 extra gears). Dude, you are hard-core!!

Those that made it to the Palm Canyon / Art Smith Trail Ride :

From left to right: Tom C., Carlos (non-STR member), Pshloss, RidetheRAAM, RIDE2LIVE, Shinken, myself, Outlaw, & Sway?

http://www.socaltrailriders.org/foru...1&d=1144045699

[Sway]

Originally Posted by pshloss

Here's my brief summary with some pics:

Nine guys started, but 1 turned back pretty quick (it was his first ride!).

I guess opinions vary on what "easy" means. It might have been easy for some, but the pace and technical aspect was not easy to me. That's why I posted this thread earliar...

A little help in judging some of these rides

I asked twice to slow down, but to no avail. After getting completely out of breath and pushing my bike up one of many hills, I saw the lead riders way off on another hill. At that point I couldn't even come close to keeping up with the group and after asking two other times to slow down, the group displayed no desire to wait for me. That's when I decided to turn back. I would have rather turned back then hold back the group. This concern is what I made perfectly clear when discussing the ride with an STR member over the phone. I was ensured it was all good, and slowing down if necessary was no big deal and had been done for others before me. I guess meeting the other group at the trailhead that knew the "good singletrack" and led the way changed all that. The only part that was disheartening was watching someone ride off over the horizon without even once looking back to check on the person he so diligently convinced to come. I guess agendas change.

No hard feelings here, but I can't say I'll be back anytime soon...

[TURNERob]

Sway, sorry to hear about your bad experience on that ride. Please don't let it discourage you though. If you aren't in that great of shape at this point then riding more by yourself or with others at a lower level will certainly make the sport more fun in the meantime. It takes a long time to build up to long rides that are over 20 miles, they aren't easy.

I'm not asking you to call out whoever it was you spoke with on the phone but that person should feel pretty shitty about the way the acted on the ride. At least stop and talk with Sway and say something.....like that its ok if you want to turn around....or something at least, just don't leave him behind and not look back. There is always 2 sides to a story, but leaving a beginner behind and ignoring him is not cool in my mind.

i gotta agree with Rob on this one. without knowing both sides of the story i don't want to pass judgement, but that sounds like a janky situation. on our group rides we never leave anyone behind, ever. if someone isn't feeling well we take time to stop and go over the options available for the rider. under NO circumstance would we ride off into the sunset without knowing where everyone is....wait, that one time we did leave Pat McGrath on Laguna Canyon Road. (we did turn around though).

[TURNERob]

Originally Posted by davidHUCKELHOFF

i gotta agree with Rob on this one. without knowing both sides of the story i don't want to pass judgement, but that sounds like a janky situation. on our group rides we never leave anyone behind, ever. if someone isn't feeling well we take time to stop and go over the options available for the rider. under NO circumstance would we ride off into the sunset without knowing where everyone is....wait, that one time we did leave Pat McGrath on Laguna Canyon Road. (we did turn around though).

Even though we "left" him it was at the end of the ride and it was only a mile or so from the cars

[Epic_Mtn_Biker]

my side of the story:

Though the the first 4 miles are the toughest, we did have regroupings atleast every 2 miles or less. there were some sections that were loose and that MOST bikers had to hike-a-bike. we were not there to drop anyone, not by any means. our first regrouping as at ~1.5 miles on top of a ridge. the pace may have been fast in the begining, but it quiclky died down. there were other individuals from the other group that were there for their first time also. unfortunately, Sway? may have felt that we were just going to bomb down the whole thing without stopping, this was not the case, we stopped a great many times for various reasons: regroupings, 2 flats, 1 bent derailler, junctions, etc...

it was truly a case of bad communication, maybe i should asked more questions or told him more details than what we had already discussed. Sway? didn't know we did regroupings along the way (we alrerady PM'd eachother,,and all is cleared up).

there were a bunch of riders and i was towards the front of the pack, so i didn't hear him say anything about slowing down. nor did he make it to the first regrouping, heard from one of the others in our group that he decided to turn around.

I'll take personal responsibility by apologizing to Sway? (did this in PM's) for his bad experience. it wasn't meant for him to feel ill about it.

[pshloss]

Sorry about Sway's experience. I was in the back of the pack when he decided to turn back. It was only about 2-3 miles from the start. And there were a couple of us that stopped to talk to him when he made the decision. We didn't just "ride off into the sunset". I will agree that he was misled about this being a suitable ride, but I think that was an honest misunderstanding. I think Armando thought it was his first ride on a new bike, not that he was a beginner. Bottom line was it was the right decision- this ride was not for a beginner or even an intermediate rider.

I didn't make a big deal of it, but one of the riders had bad cramps at the end of the ride and so three of us hung with him for the last 8 miles and gave him the last of our precious fluids until he recovered. So this group does care.

Sway- I understand you are upset now. But if you come to OC, I would really look forward to going on a ride with you. There are a lot of places around where you can make the ride as long or short as you want by adding more segments as you go. I'll even buy the BEER afterwards.

[pshloss]

Here's a few more pics from the ride

[FoShizzle]

what a fantastic looking ride! i know nothing of that area....I cannot WAIT to ride in some of the places you dawgs hang.....

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by Sway?

I guess opinions vary on what "easy" means. It might have been easy for some, but the pace and technical aspect was not easy to me. That's why I posted this thread earliar...

A little help in judging some of these rides

I asked twice to slow down, but to no avail. After getting completely out of breath and pushing my bike up one of many hills, I saw the lead riders way off on another hill. At that point I couldn't even come close to keeping up with the group and after asking two other times to slow down, the group displayed no desire to wait for me. That's when I decided to turn back. I would have rather turned back then hold back the group. This concern is what I made perfectly clear when discussing the ride with an STR member over the phone. I was ensured it was all good, and slowing down if necessary was no big deal and had been done for others before me. I guess meeting the other group at the trailhead that knew the "good singletrack" and led the way changed all that. The only part that was disheartening was watching someone ride off over the horizon without even once looking back to check on the person he so diligently convinced to come. I guess agendas change.

No hard feelings here, but I can't say I'll be back anytime soon...

Hey sway, Its mark, we shuttled the last way up the hill in my truck, and just want to say sorry for how things turned out, I dont know who you
spoke with about this ride or about how everyone in the group rides them, but let me reassure you that we always wait for everyone, we just like to go about a mile or so at our own pace before we regroup. At our first stop we were told that you turned around because you were not feeling safe on this ride and since you drove your own truck and you were not hurt we thought it was all good. once again we are sorry, you definetley seemed to me like a very cool guy and I would love to ride with you sometime, I just did not know your circumstances.

PS, don't give up on riding with the people on this site,
"ALL GOOD PEOPLE".
Hope to ride with you again, Sorry

Mark

[Sway]

Originally Posted by pshloss

Sorry about Sway's experience. I was in the back of the pack when he decided to turn back. It was only about 2-3 miles from the start. And there were a couple of us that stopped to talk to him when he made the decision. We didn't just "ride off into the sunset". I will agree that he was misled about this being a suitable ride, but I think that was an honest misunderstanding. I think Armando thought it was his first ride on a new bike, not that he was a beginner. Bottom line was it was the right decision- this ride was not for a beginner or even an intermediate rider.

I didn't make a big deal of it, but one of the riders had bad cramps at the end of the ride and so three of us hung with him for the last 8 miles and gave him the last of our precious fluids until he recovered. So this group does care.

Sway- I understand you are upset now. But if you come to OC, I would really look forward to going on a ride with you. There are a lot of places around where you can make the ride as long or short as you want by adding more segments as you go. I'll even buy the BEER afterwards.

By no means am I upset with anyone (I'm just not like that). I think Armando summed it up best when he said it was bad communication. I felt like I was pretty clear about being a beginner, but I think knowing more about what happens on rides would have been key (ie regroupings, first part being the toughest, and a faster pace than normal). I did have a blast bombing down those 11 miles we drove up though (other than almost buying the farm once or twice from the traffic). All I could think about while walking out when the only sounds I could hear were my hard breathing and heart pounding was reading posts about this.....

Very cool to read that everything has been talked about and everything is all good. From my experience, the mt.bike community is a very positive group of people who are always looking out for everyone. Sounds like it was a case of miscommunication.

Sway, just a heads up, I didn't know that you hadn't really rode much. I knew you were a beginner, but wasn't exactly sure of to what level of beginner. While our rides may not reach some of the mileage that the "xc group" (take that term with a grain of salt) of STR does, our rides do contain some substantial climbing that is sure to take its toll on any beginner rider. I remember when I first started riding I had to stop at least 3 times when climbing Mustard Road at Whiting Ranch (about a 1/2 mile somewhat steep climb). I Think I Can at El Moro used to also kick my ass, as well as Cholla at Aliso/Woods, but after time you gradually build up your legs and lungs and these climbs that used to kick your ass are now not as big of a deal to clean without stopping.

I'm not trying to discourage you from riding with any of us on STR, but if I were you I'd just try to ride as much as you can on some familiar trails around your neck of the woods, preferably ones with hills so you can build up your lungs and then come out and join us on a big group ride. Most of us have been riding for at least 4 years, with the exception of one or two people I know who started less than a year ago. I've seen dramatic improvement on their parts with climbing and descending. With each ride I think we all become stronger riders, I often surprise myself with cleaning some climbs that I thought would get the best of me. Pedalling a 33 pound Heckler up to the Main Divide isn't the easiest of tasks. I know if I was to try some of these rides that we do today a couple years ago, I probably would be hurting.

Anyhow, glad everything is cool again and there are no hard feelings.

[TURNERob]

Glad this has all come out in the open, and I didn't mean to offend anybody. Clearly miscommunication, Sway made it sound like he was left behind with no words from the others and I guess that was not the case. I guess he was just frustrated perhaps, but either way sounds like your group did what was right and that is all that matters. Thanks to those who cleared this all up and hopefully Sway will come out to another STR group ride soon enough!

Rob

[Tom Cosgrove]

Hi Sway,
I posted this ride and no one told me about your riding level.
I had no idea you were hurtin. We had radios so someone could have called me.
Even though I was out front we always regroup about every mile.
All of the rides I post are advanced rides, in the future it is best to talk to the poster for info. This was deffinitely and a+++ ride advanced riders only.
Next Tom the Bomb epic
April 16th San Juan Viejo Tie.

[Sway]

Originally Posted by Tom Cosgrove

Hi Sway,
I posted this ride and no one told me about your riding level.
I had no idea you were hurtin. We had radios so someone could have called me.
Even though I was out front we always regroup about every mile.
All of the rides I post are advanced rides, in the future it is best to talk to the poster for info. This was deffinitely and a+++ ride advanced riders only.
Next Tom the Bomb epic
April 16th San Juan Viejo Tie.

Well, then I got phucked because I was told completely different. Nice to know. Yeah, radios, I think I heard one as it passed me. Good concept though. I don't blame anyone, but I would suggest a pre-ride chat next time so everyone can get on the same page about who is in the group and general ride info. That might stop the "sorry man, I didn't know" which is completely legit in this case, but shouldn't happen again. I will ride that trail one day, but I had no business being there this past Sunday.

Thanks Tom