El Moro unauthorized trail closure

[RacinJason]

I'm making popcorn and pulling up a chair to see what comes next .

To close a closed trail hmmm. No loss it just means they will enforce it now.

I see a strong point made here.

With the 100's of years of traffic through the hills with horse and buggy and off road vehicles with not nearly as much caution as we use nowadays. And look the hills still look fine. I think we need to worry more about the development of houses in our riding areas and the horse shoes pulverizing out trails in to silt.

Wouldn't it suck if we sit here worrying about the environment arguing about whats right and wrong while miles away the property is being sold for development into a mini mall.

Just so you know that has happened to me more time that i care to think about with motorcycle track locations and Mountain biking spots.

I was thinking Its a good thing they kept us out of there so they can level it in the following years and build houses. If more people made themselves heard back then maybe we would have more riding spots.

This meant back then if you follows the rules you missed out on some great riding.
After getting busted on my motorcycle building tracks back up in Irvine Co property when I was 14-15 by a police helicopter and got into a lot of trouble. I found out they didn't care about the environment at all it was an insurance issue and a fire hazard. The track could not be found right now if your life depended on it.
One of them has houses built on it. Nice! Well I got a good 4 years riding it. No accidents or issues.

With public parks I think they have a different set of issues I wont pretend to know what they are.
However I will be really pissed off if the cool illegal places to ride ever get developed rather than opened for public use. That is a big rip off. Almost every good trail was once a closed illegal trail at one point.

Do you believe the a ranger was creative enough to just cut right down the face of some of the trails we have today. No way they Make fire roads and dbl track. Not great single track they only groom what the ones the pioneers have sculpted out for them. They start out hidden status then they are found many times because a inexperienced rider goes down and has to be lifted out. Then it becomes illegal. Then everyone cause a commotion and argues about it . Then it gets groomed and diverted and reopened when all the wining is over . Thats if we are lucky.

So I stand back on my best behavior and just try to be as helpful as I can and hope for the best.
I'm never going to say what trails I ride because its none of anyones business.

I picture me showing a pic of me riding water fall. Then I can see me getting questioned about what year it was when the pic was taken to see if it was possibly closed that year. HA Ha get a life.
And no it wasn't. But thanks for asking.

Look for any RR from me you wont find one. A big part of it is my writing skills suck.
I don't care for the drama that comes with showing where I rode each time.

I am 37 and I don't think I need any further guidance as to what I should and shouldn't do.
Suggestions are great. I have no parents and I certainly don't need anyone telling me right from wrong.

Sorry for the rant but a lot of old memory's have been brought up from a post I just read.
Back when it was all 100% fun and no politics.


Peace love and love your bushes and trees and all the $hit! XOXOXOXOXO


Jason

[L8 APEKS]

Screw that! I'm grabbing my shovel and I'm gonna go make a new trail to replace this one!

[dirtvert]

Originally Posted by G-Ride

What I want to know is how exactly does riding "illegal" trails ruin it for everyone else? As far as I know, bikes are still allowed at El Moro/Laguna Coast/Aliso Wood, right? If certain trails have been closed, they were "illegal" to begin with, so we never really lost anything, right? I simply don't see what has been ruined. Looking at Jam-R's list of potential trail openings, it seems to me the MTB population as a whole has actually benefitted from people riding "illegal" trails. Would any of them even be considered for re-opening if nobody ever used them and they reverted to overgrowth? 5 Oaks was hikers-only until just a few years ago, but a lot of MTBers rode it anyway. Would it have been opened to bikes if a need hadn't been created? Would the resources needed to open more trails have been allocated if trail access wasn't such a hot issue at this particular park? Why is it that hikers and people who don't enjoy this type of riding always seem to create an over-hyped sense of alarmism that all of a sudden the world will end if somebody rides an "illegal" trail? And did I miss something, are there actually people that ride around on their own time and report people that ride "illegal" trails? Wow. It occurs to me that there are so many more important things they could be doing to contribute to either this issue or society in general besides spending your Saturday ratting out other MTBers. And if I ever decided to ride one of these trails, I certainly would not appreciate some private citizen approaching me at all, let alone yelling at me or feeling a sense of entitlement that compelled them to educate me on trail issues. Ride them or don't ride them but I know what the risks are, so if I were ever to ride one, mind your own business. This issue has been going on here for 15 years, and the squawking is always the same. But guess what? The place is still pretty much the same, in fact, there are more open, sanctioned trails now than 15 years ago, and a lot of the new additions are former "illegal" trails. Not to mention that all of the "illegal" trails are still there, and still get ridden anyway. So those of you who are so quick to accuse freeriders of ruining it for everyone else, ask yourself: what, exactly, has been ruined? From where I sit, absolutely nothing.

well, from where i sit (on by bike at laguna coast), a lot has been ruined. there are a number of "historical" trails in both parks that, although not legal, were tolerated by the rangers. and those same rangers are in favor of eventually opening a few of those trails.

but over the last year or two new illegal trails have been carved out and the parks had to put their collective foot down: closing/posting (most) illegal trails, handing out warning tickets, and hiring new rangers to patrol. it will only get worse.

now you have to stay on the official trails or worry about tickets or possibly losing your bike. it used to be you never even saw rangers in the park. also, i've lived in places where the parks closed all of the trails to riders for a while to make their point. so, yes, a lot has been ruined.

also, you may not be aware of the big picture of why some of those trails are closed. it could be because of habitat corridors, erosion control, plant/animal habitat preservation, cultural/archeological sites, or from too many rescues of injured riders. i'm not an expert, but i know all of those are factors for some of the trails. a ranger could give you specifics. these parks were never intended to be amusement parks.

[RacinJason]

Choose your weapon.


Its easy to see that the bike will do less damage.

BTW that was my first bike. From there I think it went webco , vdc, CW, Powerlite, Race inc, Then a scooter , street bikes and a car and girls. Didn't look back. WHoo Hoo I only miss the yama bike though.
And yes I got made fun of. But Its cool because they are all fat and old and I still think that bike is cool.
The Kawasaki bike was cool too but I have been a Yamaha ride since I could walk.

[RFXIbibisTom]

Has anyone noticed that over the last year that Cholla, a legal trail is substantially wider than it was in the past?

Do we know how it became a double track or almost a fireroad?

The rangers drove a CAT, as in caterpillar up it, up a single track.

Yeeee.

PS Who is the guy threatening to ban me for nothing?
Is there no freedom of speech on STR?

[Bonz]

Jason, we are apx the same age and I feel what you are saying.

None of these illegal trails are "new" except the trail that this thread is about. People act like Johnny Apple Seed is out there building “new” trails all over southern California. All the "new trails" that everyone is talking about are trails that have been brought back to life after years of accumulated overgrowth. All of which at some point in time were legal.

Meanwhile, "new" and "legal" trails are built mostly by the exact same methods and mysteriously happen to be right over the top of previously existing trails that historically were legal.

You read it right in Chopper’s post. Everyone has his or her own opinion. It is the people who drive the RMP who decide what is going to happen and either they need to be persuaded to open challenging trails or build trails that meet EVERYONE’S desires….or, if we want other trails to be open, we need to get together and take the necessary steps to get them opened ourselves. In the past I have tried but for the most part, people are just more willing to jump the barbed wire.

Originally Posted by RFXIbibisTom

Has anyone noticed that over the last year that Cholla, a legal trail is substantially wider than it was in the past?

Do we know how it became a double track or almost a fireroad?

The rangers drove a CAT, as in caterpillar up it, up a single track.

Yeeee.

PS Who is the guy threatening to ban me for nothing?
Is there no freedom of speech on STR?

That was an "accident" by the cat driver. He was supposed to grade the fire road between Cholla and the houses.

[RFXIbibisTom]

I never accused you personally of anything,
Go ride and have fun.
5%, banned? From what, for what?

Originally Posted by genusmtbkr5

Hey I'm one of those TAV's and no, it wasn't me that was yelling at you. Be careful what you post here. You could find yourself banned....., again. You seem bent on continuing to represent the 5% that love to break the rules and ruin it for everyone else.

[genusmtbkr5]

Originally Posted by RFXIbibisTom

I never accused you personally of anything,
Go ride and have fun.
5%, banned? From what, for what?

You talked about riding on Telonics which is one of the rules of posting. Not my rules. I just enforce it. And no, If we gave STR total freedom of speech, it would be nothing but flame wars.

Ride where you wish just don't post it here. Banning someone for breaking the posting rules or deleting posts or closing threads is never personal. I have a job to do here.

Gene your STR moderator

[RacinJason]

Oh I see Gene never said you are 5% band. He said you represent the 5% that like to break the rules . No worries Thats no big deal.
There is a rule on STR we do not mention the illegal trails.
If anyone does a search the last thing we want is STR to pop up with people saying how cool a trail is to ride that is illegal.

STR is abotu trying to get more and more trails opened.

Tom, Gene was not going after you personally he was basically doing his job and a mod.

I believe Gene can relate to how we all feel he rides more that about anyone I know. No one likes restrictions. Not even Gene.

[RFXIbibisTom]

I understand the flaming thing, but being banned for discussing a trail?
Rules are rules, so I won't say the T word or the D word.

PS I only ride fireroads, my favorite loop is to go up to the top of cholla, by the street of course, then ride the fireroad all the way to top of the world. Then I turn around and come back down the same fireroad, all the way to my car.
Its so cool.

Originally Posted by genusmtbkr5

You talked about riding on Telonics which is one of the rules of posting. Not my rules. I just enforce it. And no, If we gave STR total freedom of speech, it would be nothing but flame wars.

Ride where you wish just don't post it here. Banning someone for breaking the posting rules or deleting posts or closing threads is never personal. I have a job to do here.

Gene your STR moderator

[RacinJason]

Thats what I do too.
But I walk my bike down as to not scare any of the south African blue belly lizards. You know they are extinct right? Isn't it fun. Just keeping it PC.

Originally Posted by RFXIbibisTom

I understand the flaming thing, but being banned for discussing a trail?
Rules are rules, so I won't say the T word or the D word.

PS I only ride fireroads, my favorite loop is to go up to the top of cholla, by the street of course, then ride the fireroad all the way to top of the world. Then I turn around and come back down the same fireroad, all the way to my car.
Its so cool.

[genusmtbkr5]

Originally Posted by RFXIbibisTom

I understand the flaming thing, but being banned for discussing a trail?
Rules are rules, so I won't say the T word or the D word.

You don't get banned for discussing trails, you get banned for breaking rules of posting, there is a difference. Like I said, it's never personal. See you on the trails.

Originally Posted by RFXIbibisTom

PS I only ride fireroads, my favorite loop is to go up to the top of cholla, by the street of course, then ride the fireroad all the way to top of the world. Then I turn around and come back down the same fireroad, all the way to my car.
Its so cool.

Someone's warm-up could be someone else's epic ride. Why knock them for it?

[Jordansrealm]

Originally Posted by genusmtbkr5

Someone's warm-up could be someone else's epic ride. Why knock them for it?

Exactly Gene, I guess we all can't be hardcore like that guy.

[RFXIbibisTom]

Couldn't this be considered flaming?
This is a personal attack.

Originally Posted by Jordansrealm

Exactly Gene, I guess we all can't be hardcore like that guy.

[RacinJason]

I guess you just have to know him to get his dry humor mixed with a touch of sarcasm.

It is next to impossible to get a feel for someones character over the internet.

That is why I am always popping in and saying things to defuse arguments.
In almost all cases I know both people. Or I can see where the person is coming from and have been there.

Originally Posted by Jordansrealm

Exactly Gene, I guess we all can't be hardcore like that guy.

[RFXIbibisTom]

Originally Posted by L8 APEKS

Screw that! I'm grabbing my shovel and I'm gonna go make a new trail to replace this one!

Cool quote!!

[RFXIbibisTom]

Originally Posted by G-Ride