Laguna Wilderness - Why is Everything Closed?

[jcampbell]

Originally Posted by dirtvert

Actually, environmentalists created the park. Residents of Laguna Beach came up with a plan (unique in the country) to raise taxes in order to save the park from certain development from the Irvive Co.- just look at what they've built/continue to build north and east of the park.

If you want to point fingers, start with the guys that have been carving out new trails in LCW and El Morro the last few years- using herbicides and day labor to clear trails and build a trials course. Until that started, rangers seemed to be willing to tolerate the "unofficial" trails. But they're not going to sit on their hands while people try to make the parks their personal playground. Add a few injuries/rescues from the technical trails and the signs-and-fines were inevitable. Riders were naive if they didn't know they were poaching trails, although Lizards fools lots of people (we all have a little blood on our hands). And the ranger would like to make Lizards a legal trail eventually. Laguna Coast created a new singletrack, Stagecoach, last year and several new trails have come on line at the neighboring Irvine Conservancy park with more being developed. It's not all bad...

Not really pointing fingers at all. Just stating I wish we had less fire roads in that park. Its just I like the wilderness part of Laguna Wilderness, not the fire roads. I also know why we have fire roads, its just there is an abundance there. Maybe I have been on these Single track trails you mentioned, maybe not. I'll have to look into it a little more closely. I always enter from the ridge and there isn't a good map there.

About the trails, Marie calenders should be legal. Thats a great, beautiful scenery, and challenging trail. Very challenging in some spots. Lizard did fool me with all the bike tracks going into it. Good to here the signs are up now.

[dirtvert]

I'd love to be able to ride Marie's- and all the closed trails. They're arguably the best trails in the two parks. I'm sure a ranger could give you good (or at least official) reasons why they should stay closed. I'm going to try and become a "trail assistance" rider in Laguna; there is at least one STR member already trained (infiltrate from the inside). Couldn't hurt. At least we'll always have that killer Bommer Ridge downhill...

[xhuskr]

Originally Posted by solo_rider

Tail #2: Starts at the aforementioned newport-ish parking lot on the North end of the park, and quickly drops down into deer springs canyon and exists at the deer springs camp site. Great rock outcropping at the start of the trail with an unmistakable off-camber line of decent.

if I remember correctly (if not...please correct me), the above trail called Deer Canyon S/T or even Nothing Better to Do LEGAL. I recall reading it hear on a thread. I'll try and find it later...but JamR...if you're out there...please confirm/deny!

and yes...Lizards can be deceiving, but is ILLEGAL

I know it's tempting...but try and resist riding illegal trails as those actions will effect more than just you

[dirtvert]

I've seen Nothing Better to Do listed as legal on geoladders. But it has a big fat closed sign on it now.

[xhuskr]

Originally Posted by dirtvert

I've seen Nothing Better to Do listed as legal on geoladders. But it has a big fat closed sign on it now.

r we talking the same trail? just down the fireroad from Park Ridge and ends up at the bottom of Deer Canyon Campgrounds? If so...when did the sign go up? rode there about a week ago...no sign!

still looking for past thread about Deer Canyon S/T

[dirtvert]

That's the one. It was there the last time I checked a few weeks ago. Maybe it was taken out by the same guys who were target shooting Corona bottles at the beginning of Bommer. Somebody get a rope.

[xhuskr]

thnx for the update dirtvert...bummed it's closed (contrary to a post I have not found). I'll honor it's closure until I hear differently from an authorized representative.

[DISCO]

There is always enough time to do it properly if you have the patience to trust your judgment.

R.I.P.

[El Prieto]

If it close do not ride it! (punto)
People in charge of keeping trails close should post rnon generic (not just "CLOSE TRAIL"), resons of why a particualr trail is close. After all they made a sudy; right?

[LBmtb]

Originally Posted by dirtvert

I've seen Nothing Better to Do listed as legal on geoladders. But it has a big fat closed sign on it now.

I don't think geoladders is the best source of information when it comes to what's legal and what's not. They even had telonics up there for awhile.

[mazda-monkey]

Originally Posted by dirtvert

That's the one. It was there the last time I checked a few weeks ago. Maybe it was taken out by the same guys who were target shooting Corona bottles at the beginning of Bommer. Somebody get a rope.

I rode deer canyon the day after Christmas. I saw the broken beer bottles, spent 22 caliber shells there too. There was no "trail closed" sign however. Before this trip, I had not ridden deer canyon in 5-6 months and don't remember ever seeing a trail closed sign then either. It did look likes someone piled up twigs / brush on the trail. There are plenty of trails in Laguna Coast I stay off because there is a "Trail closed / do not enter" sign. They need to put some kind of permanent sign if it is closed because the trail appears well ridden and established.

[mtnbikej]

Originally Posted by dirtvert

I've seen Nothing Better to Do listed as legal on geoladders. But it has a big fat closed sign on it now.

When did Geoladders become the expert on what trails are legal and which aren't. Just because you ride the trail and record it with your GPS, does not mean it is a legal trail.

[dirtvert]

Trust me, it wasn't an endorsement for geoladders. I was trying to imply that they were a bad source of info. I just found the comment on there when I was researching some trails. BTW- it was fairly "permanent" as trail signs go- a solid 4X4. It wouldn't have been easy to take out.

[mazda-monkey]

Originally Posted by dirtvert

Trust me, it wasn't an endorsement for geoladders. I was trying to imply that they were a bad source of info. I just found the comment on there when I was researching some trails. BTW- it was fairly "permanent" as trail signs go- a solid 4X4. It wouldn't have been easy to take out.

Someone took it out, it was not there on the 26th. No sign at the top or bottom at the campground.

[JamR]

Originally Posted by xhuskr

if I remember correctly (if not...please correct me), the above trail called Deer Canyon S/T or even Nothing Better to Do LEGAL. I recall reading it hear on a thread. I'll try and find it later...but JamR...if you're out there...please confirm/deny!

and yes...Lizards can be deceiving, but is ILLEGAL

I know it's tempting...but try and resist riding illegal trails as those actions will effect more than just you

The description of trail # 2 sounds like NBTD. I’ve never been on it but I know where it starts and ends

From my understanding, the issue with the trail (besides the basic fact that it was not listed on the inventory of trails for the park plan) is that it traverses close-to or directly on some historical or cultural sites.

The one thing about all the trails that people are discussing here is that it was never a difficult thing to find out that they were not authorized trails. El Moro and Laguna Coast have had maps and signs up for years on their authorized trails; so just the simple fact that these trails were not signed with a trail-head sign and not shown on the official maps would give the user all the information they would need to know they were not legal trails.

Plus, in El Moro; their trail-head signs have actual trail maps on them, and it’s easy to see on the signs that there are no trails shown between the end of Fenceline and Ridgepark……and the only trails shown leading down to the Deer Canyon Campsite are Ticketron and Deer Canyon.

The messages have always been there……they are now just being reinforced by signs stating the specific non-authorized aspect of the trails. It’s actually unfortunate that the parks needs to be littered with signs telling users where they should not go instead of the users simply sticking to the trails that are shown on the maps and/or have authorized trail-head signs.

I stated it so many times on these types of websites for years now…….if it does not have a sign and/or is shown on the official land managers trail map….it’s not a legal trail. Using the land manager’s maps and asking the land manager about a specific trail is still the best way to stay out of trouble.

Even with nice sites like STR, Geo Ladders, MTBR, Bikeforums, and others…..the user still has the ultimate responsibility to know whether a trail they are using is legal or not. You cannot depend solely on private websites that their information is accurate.

I hope this helps a little….

Thanks

ps....one reason you cannot always depend on a "closed trail", "closed area", or "not a trail" sign is because they get vandalized quite often....which is one of the items that will lead to increased and harsher enforcement. Removing or defacing a county, state, or private property sign is vandalism, and when the cost of replacing signs gets out of hand.....harsher enforcement usually follows.

Again.....just have fun out there but always try to make sure you know the the trail you are riding is an authorized trail.

[2wheel_lee]

Originally Posted by .8down

you probably don't know the names of these trails because they probably aren't trails?

I'm not defending what the original poster did, and I'm not going to debate this general topic here. But I disagree with that line of thinking. Although I have a great memory for some things, others I do not. For example, I've ridden Whiting Ranch for many years. I actually worked right next to it, so I'd often even ride from my work at lunch break. However, despite that, the only trail name I can remember is Mustard - I remember two other names of Ridgeline and Cactus, but I couldn't tell you where those trails are - I simply can't remember. Heck, I've been riding the Fullerton Loop for nearly 15 years - I live right next to it. And I still can't remember the names of the parks we pass through (which is what those sections of trail are named after). I couldn't correctly name any trail at El Moro, except Rattlesnake.

Yes, in regards to some things, my memory sucks. But that doesn't mean I'm riding illegal trails.

Back to the main topic at hand.

[danlorek]

i've never been there, nor do i live in the area... with that being said, why are these trails closed? if they were around in the 80s and 90s, they don't appear to be "newly cut" trails, right? They sound very well established.

sometimes it's hard for me to conform to what the man says when it's just retarded. it's kinda like coming to a complete stop at a stop sign at 3am on a Wednesday night in the middle of nowhere... most of us tend to just roll through. They recently closed a little offshoot in penesquitos canyon near the waterfall (on the north side) that had been there for many, many years. now they force you to stay on the smooth fireroad instead of the fun little singletrack bypass. i might just be uninformed of the good reason.

[dirtvert]

Well, I think JamR has summed in up nicely, as usual. Several of the trails have cultural/archaeological sites on them, so they will probably never be legal. At least three other trails have been "made" recently, so they were doomed from the start. Try talking to the people in charge if you want official reasons or to see if you can have some input in the way the park's handle trails.

[solo_rider]

Wow I was never aware that these trails were illegal before. I've always seen tons of riders on them (especially MC) and always figured they were open. I personally think that these two trails are some of the finest in the area as they have wonderful technical sections and make for fun loops.

I do not believe one can openly critisize hikers or mountain bikers for riding these trails prior to them being labeled as closed at the trail head. I've never seen any signs or indications (not even brush being scattered infront of the trailheads) of closure until now.

Bummer!

[mazda-monkey]

Originally Posted by solo_rider

Wow I was never aware that these trails were legal before. I've always seen tons of riders on them (especially MC) and always figured they were open. I personally think that these two trails are some of the finest in the area as they have wonderful technical sections and make for fun loops.

I do not believe one can openly critisize hikers or mountain bikers for riding these trails prior to them being labeled as closed at the trail head. I've never seen any signs or indications (not even brush being scattered infront of the trailheads) of closure until now.

Bummer!

I ride there alot. I am go