RR: Laguna Coast/El Morro- Trail Closures...

[dirtvert]

I rode from the Ridge Park entrance late this afternoon after not having been there for a few weeks. The excitement of hitting some clean post-rain trails quickly vanished as I started seeing all the "Closed Trail" signs: Better than Nothing, Nothing Better to Do, and the lower half/extension of Marie's (the first half had already been closed). It was really just a matter of time after all the trail-building that has gone on in the two parks over this last year and the increase in people riding the "historical" trails.

Let's at least try to spread the word in the community and try to save what's left. Lizards still has the potential to be opened to riding in the future. Although people are getting warning tickets on it, at least at this point it hasn't been posted with closed signs.

This is still a great area to ride and is only getting better as all of the trails in the Irvine Conservancy come on line. Let's not go backwards...

[CalEpic]

Unless they've been removed, there were signs on both ends of Lizards. I doubt that trail will ever be added to the inventory.

C

[sir crashalot]

The trails you mentioned have always been closed to bikes. Bikers tear down the signs as soon as they go up. The LCWP ranger, however, is pushing the county to open Lizards, she believes it would be a great connector from El Moro to Stagecoach Springs, without as much habitat impact as, say, opening Nothing better to Do (which is a great trail but will never be opened). The best thing we can do to bring about the opening of Lizards is to respect the current trail closures. they are closed for viable ecological reasons (I.E. preventing habitat fragmentation and excess erosion, and in some cases protecting endangered species); not just to piss people off. I'm not trying to preach from a soapbox here, those of you who know me have seen me on the aforementioned illegal trails. Recent events in the parks have changed my mind about doing so. there has been so much illegal trail building and trail riding in LCWP and El Moro this year it is beginning to undermine the park's main mission, to preserve the integrity of the coastal sage scrub habitat (one of the most endangered plant communities in the world); as well as undermine all the progress in the last decade of opening these areas to bikes. Some jerks even spread toxic weed killer in the poison oak patch near the bottom of Nothing Better to Do, right next to the Deer Canyon watershed. talk about disrespect for the environment! This kind of behavior will only result in the eventual closing of these areas to mtb's, instead of the openings of more trails.

[ODB]

Never mind. your post answered my question.

[dirtvert]

Just out of curiosity- does anybody know if Better than Nothing and Marie's are/were historical trails or have been carved out more recently?

[Pilas]

Where are these trails located (better than nothing, nothing better to do, and Marie)?
I'm guessing than one of them is that singletrack that drops to Deer Canyon from the Ridge Park entrance.
I had been riding it for the last few months, since there were no signs stating that it was closed. I just saw the closed sign last week, as I was running on the fire road.
I also have a question regarding a couple of other trails that I have been riding. One of them is a fun singletrack from El Moro Ridge that drops you by the houses close to PCH (connecting to the old steep paved road before BFI). The other one is a singletrack from Morro Ridge down to the bottom of Emerald cyn. (almost directly across from the bottom of Old Emerald singletrack).
Are these trails also closed? I have been asuming that they were open, since there were no signs.
I don't want to ride anything that is illegal, so it would be nice to know which trails are ok to ride in the LCWP and El Morro. Maybe some signs in front of the trails that are off limits?

[sir crashalot]

The trail that drops from Moro Ridge into Emerald canyon is called BVD and is legal. the other one, just past BFI, I know that one but I'm not sure of its status-does anyone know?

[guero]

Originally Posted by Pilas

One of them is a fun singletrack from El Moro Ridge that drops you by the houses close to PCH (connecting to the old steep paved road before BFI)....
Are these trails also closed? I have been asuming that they were open, since there were no signs.
I don't want to ride anything that is illegal, so it would be nice to know which trails are ok to ride in the LCWP and El Morro. Maybe some signs in front of the trails that are off limits?

i know exactly what trail you are talking about. it is indeed fun, or so i've heard. im guessing since it isnt 'marked on a map' it is indeed illegal.

and like you said, it would be nice if the illegal trails were infact marked 'illegal' or 'off limits'. i recently noticed the one on Nothing Better To Do. like jamr has said, many signs get defaced or removed so it is a never ending game of cat and mouse more or less.

ive said it once, and i'll say it again...if there is one thing i know, it is that poaching is bad.

[Chopper]

El Moro has recently replaced all the old faded map signs at all their trail intersections. All the authorized trails are on that map with one exception. The one referred to as B.V.D (official name Old Emerald Falls) is open but is not on their map. Most of that trail is actually in LCWP and not in El Moro.
Rule of thumb, If it isn't on the map, it isn't legal.

[JamR]

It's always a tough problem, but the best way to stay safe is to only ride trails that are on the manager’s map and/or have trail signs.

You cannot always depend on signs in front of the non-authorized trails. The sign that was placed at the top of NBTD on a Saturday, was vandalized by Tuesday.....so it is impossible for the land managers to keep up with the vandals.

The messages in the entire south coast area are being cleaned up and all four parks (Aliso-Woods, Laguna Coast, Crystal Cove, and the Irvine Space) have met several times over the past year to compare maps and have met with Franko's maps. A new revision of the Franko's Map of the South Coast Wilderness will be coming out shortly that will show all the currently legal trails in the four areas. This map, coupled with the land managers maps and signs will give everyone the tools they need to simply stay on the legal trails.

Also, signage has been ordered for the entire Irvine Open Space Preserve area that will complete the signage for the area, and there should be no mixed messages anywhere in the South Coast Wilderness.

Since you cannot always count on signs in the field (because of vandalism).....just use trails that you know are on the land managers map, and you will be ok.

Citations have begun to be issued on the non-sanctioned trails, and night-riding is also being dealt with via citations.....so it's better just to be safe and not take a chance on a citation.

There are plenty of really nice legal trails out here to ride.

Have fun

[2w4s]

Originally Posted by JamR

There are plenty of really nice legal Challenging (sic)trails out here to ride.

Have fun

No, there's not.

I'm not advocating riding illegal trails and I would never build an illegal trail or do trail work on an illegal trail, but your statement is not correct especially if one is skilled at riding technical trails. If there were plenty of legal, challenging trails then I don't think land managers would be facing their current problems. I, for one, find most legal trails around here to be rather boring. Flame away.

fwiw, I have stopped riding illegal trails, but I am trying to find a job somewhere else.

[pitmang1]

At the bottom of BVD there is a marker with trail names on it. It seems to be a temporary placement marker for a permanent sign.

[dirtvert]

A note on BVD/Emerald Falls trail: I don't think it's on the El Morro map and I've seen signs (in the past) on the Laguna Coast side saying that the area is closed...

[CalEpic]

BVD has only recently been opened up as an authorized trail.


C

[Pilas]

Originally Posted by JamR

I
Also, signage has been ordered for the entire Irvine Open Space Preserve area that will complete the signage for the area, and there should be no mixed messages anywhere in the South Coast Wilderness.

Hey Adam, I know that I have asked you the same question many times, but are there plans to open up Bommer and Shady cyn on a daily basis any time soon?
If so, what is the time line?
You mentioned that a group of Irvine residents were trying to block the process. What is the status?
Since I'm also an Irvine resident, maybe we could organize a group of people to advocate the opening of the area (i.e. signatures etc.). Would this be necessary? What are your thoughts?

[Fired Yo Momma]

I ride El Morro all the time its somewhat close to where I live. The trails in the past (my opinion) are poorly marked as what is open or what is not opened. The maps that are posted are piss poor as well. When I ride I am always getting stopped by people who are not fimiliar with the park or could not understand the map very well asking how can I get out of here or will this trail take me here or can I ride this trail.

If I was riding on a closed trail and I did get a ticket I would fight it and may win the case just because the rider has a valid point on they did not know if the trail was open or not.

[Chopper]

Originally Posted by Fired Yo Momma

I ride El Morro all the time its somewhat close to where I live. The trails in the past (my opinion) are poorly marked as what is open or what is not opened. The maps that are posted are piss poor as well. When I ride I am always getting stopped by people who are not fimiliar with the park or could not understand the map very well asking how can I get out of here or will this trail take me here or can I ride this trail.

If I was riding on a closed trail and I did get a ticket I would fight it and may win the case just because the rider has a valid point on they did not know if the trail was open or not.

If what you are saying is that there should be a sign posted on every illegal trail, I would be strongly opposed to that. I have counted 11 new illegal trails that have popped up over the past 12 months. If every one was posted the park would covered with signs.

On another note, I helped to design the new trail signs/maps that are in place now and, with all due respect, they are not hard to figure out. Also, over the past few months, every trail (with the exception of one) has been marked with a sign/map. How much more clear could it be? If you are riding on a trail that is not marked and not on the park map, there is a 99% chance you are riding on an illegal trail.

[Fired Yo Momma]

What I am saying is this if no fixed or secured signs are posted on trails that are legit or not legit to ride how could the State of California possibly expect people to pay for a fine. Its like this if I come to a road and their are no speed limits what is the speed limit? If I come to a four way intersection and their are no stop signs who has the right away? See my point? I ma sure many people just get their ticket then decide that they would just pay the stupid citation rather than fight it because its So Cal and most people are too busy.

About your sign I am sorry if I made you upset I did not know you designed the map. I am saying from the past from riding at that park I have had many other people have asked me after looking at the map at the time and asked will this trail take me out to hear or there? Maybe you guys should look at a Mall directory that might help a bit for some ideas. I am being serious and I mean you no disrespect. Hell at least your more proactive trying to do more for the park than me. I just ride and really don't contribute, although that is one of my New Years resolutions to get more involved with trail maintence etc. etc.

I could be wrong but I don't think Aliso (405 Freeway) they don't have as many of these issues as much as El Morro has.

[Pilas]

When I first started riding at El Morro, a few years back, I thought the trail maps were very good and useful. I just think they are a bit old now. Maybe they need to be updated, but they are very easy to follow.

[JamR]

Originally Posted by 2w4s

No, there's not.

I'm not advocating riding illegal trails and I would never build an illegal trail or do trail work on an illegal trail, but your statement is not correct especially if one is skilled at riding technical trails. If there were plenty of legal, challenging trails then I don't think land managers would be facing their current problems. I, for one, find most legal trails around here to be rather boring. Flame away.

fwiw, I have stopped riding illegal trails, but I am trying to find a job somewhere else.

I appreaciate your position, but if you are going to quote someone and then debate their comment....it would be better if you did not change their original quote. I know you changed your addition to Bold Lettering... but then you followed it up by debating the revised quote as if I made the statement directly.

You added the words challenging and sic to my statement and commented on that.

IMO...we do have plenty of nice trails locally....I made no mention of Challenging or Sic.

We could probably use some more challenging ones, but unfortunately some of the more challenging trails may not be compatible in areas that are protected under signatory NCCP areas.

If you are going to quote someone, please don't change the original quote and take it in a different direction than it was originally intended. It's just a matter of respect for the original poster.

Thanks