RR: Laguna Coast/El Morro- Trail Closures...

[2w4s]

Originally Posted by JamR

I appreaciate your position, but if you are going to quote someone and then debate their comment....it would be better if you did not change their original quote. I know you changed your addition to Bold Lettering... but then you followed it up by debating the revised quote as if I made the statement directly.

You added the words challenging and sic to my statement and commented on that.

IMO...we do have plenty of nice trails locally....I made no mention of Challenging or Sic.

We could probably use some more challenging ones, but unfortunately some of the more challenging trails may not be compatible in areas that are protected under signatory NCCP areas.

If you are going to quote someone, please don't change the original quote and take it in a different direction than it was originally intended. It's just a matter of respect for the original poster.

Thanks

I provided the 'challenging' portion to your quote because, to me, that's what makes a trail 'nice'. We have a different definition of the word nice, as do a lot of other people apparently. Just trying to give you an insight into how people who enjoy challenging trails may think. If you're going to speak for everybody then you should know how everybody thinks.

I never said that LCWP is the proper place for technical trails, I said that if there were legal technical trails then maybe there wouldn't be so much illegal trail building. I'm not trying to be a bad guy, I'm trying to fill in a portion of the picture for people who won't post their true feelings. flame away, I'm like a pig in mud

[OMR]

Originally Posted by 2w4s

flame away, I'm like a pig in mud

I think you'll a curious lack of flaming on STR... not that there aren't disagreements and differences of opinions.. just that most know and respect each other even if we don't always agree ... probably one of the reasons that so many riders have come over from some of the other boards... it is our diversity that makes it interesting... of course, the one thing we can all agree on is our love of mountain biking.

[CalEpic]

I agree with Chopper. The last thing we need is 10,000 signs polluting the trails. If maps are offered at park entrances that's sufficient.

At issue though, and I'm not an attorney but I doubt the state or county could successfully prosecute a case against someone riding an unsigned trail even with maps offered.

C

[JamR]

Originally Posted by CalEpic

I agree with Chopper. The last thing we need is 10,000 signs polluting the trails. If maps are offered at park entrances that's sufficient.

At issue though, and I'm not an attorney but I doubt the state or county could successfully prosecute a case against someone riding an unsigned trail even with maps offered.

C

Actually this issue has passed muster successfully in many areas across the country, and all the managers are required to do is have maps available to the public that show the legal trail system and trail signs that correspond to the maps...and have wording for users to stay on the designated trails.

The ultimate responsibility still falls to the user to be aware of the rules. The state park has maps, and the new trail signs throughout the park show the open trails and have a note to use only the designated trails.

It's almost impossible to maintain signs on every non-sanctioned trail and the areas would become so sign-polluted that it would be a huge visual impact to the area.

It's not worth taking the risk of a citation on a non-signed trail.

I carry a couple of maps in my camelback for pretty much every area I ride....not only for my own use, but to hand out to others who might need one. These are free and readily available from the park offices....so there's no reason not to be aware of the proper trails in most of the local areas.

Plus if you grab a map and have any questions....you can talk to the rangers or land managers and open a dialog with them about the trails. Up front communication is a much better solution than being caught in a closed area or non-sanctioned trail.

Have fun out there

[Chopper]

Originally Posted by Fired Yo Momma

What I am saying is this if no fixed or secured signs are posted on trails that are legit or not legit to ride how could the State of California possibly expect people to pay for a fine. Its like this if I come to a road and their are no speed limits what is the speed limit? If I come to a four way intersection and their are no stop signs who has the right away? See my point? I ma sure many people just get their ticket then decide that they would just pay the stupid citation rather than fight it because its So Cal and most people are too busy.

About your sign I am sorry if I made you upset I did not know you designed the map. I am saying from the past from riding at that park I have had many other people have asked me after looking at the map at the time and asked will this trail take me out to hear or there? Maybe you guys should look at a Mall directory that might help a bit for some ideas. I am being serious and I mean you no disrespect. Hell at least your more proactive trying to do more for the park than me. I just ride and really don't contribute, although that is one of my New Years resolutions to get more involved with trail maintence etc. etc.

I could be wrong but I don't think Aliso (405 Freeway) they don't have as many of these issues as much as El Morro has.

I'm certainly not upset about your comment on the signs. I learned a long time ago that you can't please everyone especially when it comes to trail issues.

I'm not sure you really read my last post when I said that El Moro now has trailhead signs at all their legal trails. If they put one on all the illegal trails they would need a full time employee just to keep track of all the new ones and the park would covered with signs.

On a side note, do you really want mall type signage in your parks? Seriously, it's a very simple map for a very simple trail system.

[mr.hobbs]

I'm not sure what all the issues are with this trail system. We rode all the normal trails we could last night pre-storm. The last storm really did a number on the trails though. Knocked down trees, broke several cactus plant out of the ground and made general chaos of most of the normal riding area. You couldn't go 100ft with out some sort of new "challenge" to clear. How does cactus just get up rooted like that? Very powerful wind I'd say.

I want to thank everyone that has paid for parking at El Moro over the past 5 years for funding the new sign project.

What's even more interesting is someone with a car full of closed signs in the trunk of their Honda Civic stopping and asking for directions to a trail head that they are about to close. (It wasn't even a hybrid). He got directions alright, I hope the car had good brakes.

1 year from now there will be 7 more "new" trails in the park because of the closures. dumb arses~

[dirtvert]

That must have a very localized area that was affected in El Moro. I didn't notice any damage in Laguna Coast or along Missing Link/Fenceline. The trails were in great shape...