Long Distance Wheel Build Help

[MTBMaven]

I am currently having a steel DeSalvo built and considering a new wheelset as well. I am currently riding a set of Reynolds Alta Comp. They have a pretty deep v rim, 20 radial non-bladded spokes on the front, 24 radial non-drive side and 2 cross drive side non-bladded rear spokes, and are pretty darn fast. I have had a rear spoke break twice and with the low spoke count the wheel is drastically our of true when missing a spoke. Additionally the ride is pretty stiff with the deep v rims.

I ride long rides 100-200 miles and want to start working on a full brevet series (200km, 300km, 400km, 600km, 1,200km). So I want a comfortable wheel with a higher spoke count. These will be my only wheelset as well. I weight between 170-175 depending on hydration levels and the amount of dessert eaten that week.

So here is the proposed build:
Front Hub: Shimano Ultegra 28 hole
Rear Hub: Shimano Dura Ace 28 hole
Front Rim: Velocity Aerohead 28 hole
Rear Rim: Velocity Aerohead O/C 28 hole
Spokes: DT Revolution 14/17 gauge 3 cross all around
Nipples: Alloy

According to Excel online custom wheel builder the weight should be 807 grams and cost $473 (I will be heading to the Path if I proceed with the build so price my vary). I am a firm believer in saving money on a front hub as it really is not that complex. For instance the Ultegra front hub versus Dura-Ace is 13 grams difference and $70 less (that's like $5.38 per gram). I would rather focus on spokes where the difference between 14/15 gauge spoke and 14/17 spokes is 37 grams for only $1.12 more. I am not committed to any piece of the build and open to any recommendation.

My big questions are:
1) Thoughts on the overall build for the intended purpose?
2) Thoughts on the rim and hub selection?

[DISCO]

Velocity hoops are a great choice for low maintenance, stiff and true.

The only difference in the hubs is fancy seals and as you said a couple of G's, loose ball bearings on both (I like to re-pack with High quality Syn grease).

DT swiss spokes are reputable and will not stretch like cheap ones once they are bedded in. So after riding out the incipient slack (10 hours or so) give em a half turn all around and they should ride just fine.

You will be in good hands with the Path, their builds are among the best in the world.

[2wheel_lee]

For the sake of durability, I'd consider 32 spokes for the rear wheel.

[MTBMaven]

I recalculated the build to include a 32 hole rear and 14/15 gauge drive side rear. I'm not a weight weenie but the new weight is 1,366 or 559 grams more, which is 1.2 pounds. That's substantial.

[2wheel_lee]

Originally Posted by MTBMaven

I recalculated the build to include a 32 hole rear and 14/15 gauge drive side rear. I'm not a weight weenie but the new weight is 1,366 or 559 grams more, which is 1.2 pounds. That's substantial.

Four spokes and nipples are 559 grams (1.2 pounds) more? You may want to check your math.

OK, since you're going with 14/15 gauge spokes, I'm assuming you're now using DT Competition spokes instead of the Revolutions.

So using DT Competitions spokes instead of the Revos, adding four more 294 mm spokes (that's the reference size listing I see) adds an extra 26 grams. The extra four nipples is another whopping 1.28 grams. Don't forget to count the gram or so from the four holes in the rim and the hub that you lose.

Reference weights are from here: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/li...hp?type=spokes

[bent steel]

Hello, from a fellow DeSalvo owner, two steels and one ti. Mike's a great guy to work with.

I'd also recommend 32h, as noted, the weight is minimal, and the added durability if you do blow a spoke is very nice, resulting in less brake rub, which on ultra long rides is really nice if you don't have to pull over to tend to one nuked spoke.

Please post pics of the rig when its done.

[MTBMaven]

You know some times in life it really does help to read all the information provided. The weights I was quoting are the rear wheel alone. The front wheel is 760 grams. So total weight for 28 front rear is 1,567 grams and the 28 front / 32 rear is 2,156 grams, with a difference of 589 grams (1.3 pounds).

[2wheel_lee]

Originally Posted by MTBMaven

You know some times in life it really does help to read all the information provided. The weights I was quoting are the rear wheel alone. The front wheel is 760 grams. So total weight for 28 front rear is 1,567 grams and the 28 front / 32 rear is 2,156 grams, with a difference of 589 grams (1.3 pounds).

OK, if your calcuations show that going from a 28 spoke rear wheel to a 32 spoke rear wheel adds 1.3 pounds, yielding a 1567 gram rear wheel (with everything else being the same), then I still say you should check your calculations. For 2156 grams, you can build some nice mountain bike DH wheels. Doesn't something seem remotely odd?

[DirtymikeTDB]

May I make a suggestion, 32 hole Ultegra hubs, Mavic Open pro hoops, 14/15 in the front, 14 in the rear, I will lace in hwatever patter you want, Alloy nipple color of your choice. about 440-450 built up.


I have everything but the hubs in stock. PM me if your interested.




Oh yeah, I also have a trial set built already on DA hubs if you want to try them out

[MTBMaven]

Just to clarify things here, my comment "You know some times in life it really does help to read all the information provided," was directed at myself for my screw up and not directed at anyone here. Rereading my post that was totally not clear. Big apology to you 2wheel_lee.

[MTBMaven]

For clarity sake:

Front Hub: Shimano Ultegra 28 hole
Rear Hub: Shimano Dura Ace 28 hole
Front Rim: Velocity Aerohead 28 hole
Rear Rim: Velocity Aerohead O/C 28 hole
Spokes: DT Revolution 14/17 gauge 3 cross all around
Nipples: Alloy
Weight 1,567 grams

Front Hub: Shimano Ultegra 28 hole
Rear Hub: Shimano Dura Ace 32 hole
Front Rim: Velocity Aerohead 28 hole
Rear Rim: Velocity Aerohead O/C 28 hole
Spokes: DT Revolution 14/17 gauge, 14/15 gauge rear DS, 3 cross all around
Nipples: Alloy
Weight: 2,156 grams

[jeffj]

Originally Posted by MTBMaven

For clarity sake:

Front Hub: Shimano Ultegra 28 hole
Rear Hub: Shimano Dura Ace 28 hole
Front Rim: Velocity Aerohead 28 hole
Rear Rim: Velocity Aerohead O/C 28 hole
Spokes: DT Revolution 14/17 gauge 3 cross all around
Nipples: Alloy
Weight 1,567 grams

Front Hub: Shimano Ultegra 28 hole
Rear Hub: Shimano Dura Ace 32 hole
Front Rim: Velocity Aerohead 28 hole
Rear Rim: Velocity Aerohead O/C 28 hole
Spokes: DT Revolution 14/17 gauge, 14/15 gauge rear DS, 3 cross all around
Nipples: Alloy
Weight: 2,156 grams

Still doesn't seem right and you can't use a 32 hole rear hub with a 28 hole rim.

I'll do some digging and see what I come up with. I could be wrong, but the huge increase in weight just doesn't seem right....

EDIT: OK, I'm showing about 1585g for the wheelset (the DT-Swiss calculator says 1609g) using alloy nipples, not counting QR's..

A Revolution spoke is roughly 4.42g each (124g @ 28ea - 1.8-1.5 Revolution) and a Competition spoke is about 5.97g each (191g @ 32ea - Competition 2.0-1.8 ).

The Aerohead rims are 425g for the front and 418g for the (O/C) rear, and the hubs are 267g for the D/A rear and 140g for the Ultegra front.

Quick releases are 67g each, but most don't use them to figure the weight of a wheelset (I didn't either).

Alloy nipples are roughly 20g for a set of 64 and brass are roughly 64g for a set of 64.

All weights are per the websites of the manufacturers:

http://www.dtswiss.com/Products.aspx

http://www.velocityusa.com/default.asp?contentID=581

http://www.velocityusa.com/default.asp?contentID=582

http://bike.shimano.com/

[MTBMaven]

Originally Posted by jeffj

you can't use a 32 hole rear hub with a 38 hole rim.

Sorry forgot to change that when I copied and pasted. Yeah that is a huge increase for a few extra spokes

I have noticed some inconsistencies with the Excel wheel builder. For instance the weight quoted in the wheel builder page is different than the product specs page. Maybe on 20 or so grams for a hub but difference like that and a few grams here or that on a spoke add up.

[bikeadict]

Ok just lost the post I had but I'll summarize it for you:

Build = good

Rims = good, had them on my 29er for many years, moved them to my commuter on a new build still riding them thousand miles later

hubs = good, I've run a set of dura ace for 2 builds several thousand miles

spokes = good, can't beat double butted DT Swiss

lacing pattern = your choice. I've run 32 hole rims for a long time I float between 215 and 185lbs, I run radial laced front and 3x rear I've only knocked the front out of true once and it was hitting a curb dead on. Consider it. Radial looks cool

[2wheel_lee]

Originally Posted by bikeadict

lacing pattern = your choice. I've run 32 hole rims for a long time I float between 215 and 185lbs, I run radial laced front and 3x rear I've only knocked the front out of true once and it was hitting a curb dead on. Consider it. Radial looks cool

Be careful with radial lacing!!!
Note that Shimano recommends against radial lacing with many of their hubs. Note the document on the following page. Only the hubs shown in the chart are OK for radial lacing. Assuming the OP is going to use an HB-6600 front hub (only "Ultegra" was indicated), radial lacing with that hub is not recommended.

http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830611787.pdf

[bikeadict]

Safe is better than cool any day of the week

I'm not relacing my front wheel carrying around my 205lb A$$

but its you're call

[SAR_boats]

Go phil wood hubs. Trust me on this.

[MTBMaven]

Yeah but the price on the rear hub is almost double. Like close $400. You got a hook up on Phil Wood you care to share?

[SAR_boats]

Originally Posted by MTBMaven

Yeah but the price on the rear hub is almost double. Like close $400. You got a hook up on Phil Wood you care to share?

Unfortuneately, no. Wish I did.

[singleSSpeedster]

can't wait to see your new bike....i have 2 desalvos and love them.

as for your wheel build, i would go 32h front and rear. i have a set of 32h dura ace hubs laced to aeroheads that are on my monstercross. those wheels do NOT weight anywhere near 2100g. more like 1600g. i am using db 14/15 wheelsmith spokes. the only increase in weight you are looking at is about 5g a spoke and the extra weight for the nipples, so roughly 25-30g per wheel.

i run 1.9/1.75 tires front and rear with about 40-50psi and these wheels have been awesome even with my shoddy wheelbuilding skills.

good choice in wheels though. have you thought about used king wheels? ebay can be a pretty harsh place for wheels. i bought a practically new 28h king/aerohead wheelset for about $360 from a local seller. they are on my spec. tarmac pro.