Santiago Cyn Road Orange Development Plans?

[lkn2ryd]

Hey there peeps.

I don't know if this is new info or a long standing and ongoing issue, but, a friend sent this to me today and requested that I pass it on... (Sorry so long!)

If you currently enjoy running / riding / training along Santiago Canyon Road's pristine and uninterupted bike lane without cross traffic and stop lights
and care to keep it as such, please read below and e-mail your comments TODAY to the Orange City Council: <mailto:citycouncil@cityoforange.org> citycouncil@cityoforange.org
stating your opposition to the East Orange Area II Development. You can list any objections you come up with along with the following example and additional information in the letter below
Also see ATTACHED letter sent to Orange City Council TODAY w/ photos of tract development included.

Bicycling on Santiago Canyon Road is a cultural asset to Orange County and as such needs to be reviewed further by an SEIR.
There are hundreds of cyclists on Santiago Cyn Rd DAILY, a project of this size with a projected 14,000
daily car trips will surely endanger many cyclists and cause deaths

Ultimately, Do we really NEED more houses in Orange County, Especially in a high fire area? Do we want to cover every last inch of the county with
tract homes taking away the last of our accessible and open spaces? Do we want THAT to be our legacy to our children & Grandchildren?

It only takes a moment of your time TODAY to send an e-mail that would help keep Santiago Canyon Road Pristine.


Please forward to ALL who have an interest in this route



Dear concerned citizens / Bicyclists / Athletes ,

On March 11, 2008 a handful of residents showed up to hear the Orange City Council present the proposal of the Irvine Company in it's attempt to get the tract maps of the East Orange Area ll Development approved, and to testify against the project. (That's the area from the Lake east to the Red Rock Cliffs, currently in a lawsuit between the Sierra Club & TIC)

The Sierra Club, along with many residents of Orange and the Canyons, have already complained about the project's lack of environmental review in the wildland area. Lack of adequate traffic studies on Santiago Cyn Road, possible runoff into the Lake and Limestone, wildland habitat destruction, Fire danger, evacuations, greenhouse gases, noise pollution, etc, were barely discussed and some excused as already mitigated by the Irvine Company staff. In 2005 The Irvine Company told the City that further review could come when tract maps would be available. Now the tract maps are here for review and approval and they're saying no further environmental review is necessary!! They claim now to have done adequate studies in 2005. Go figure!

The CEQA (California Envornmental Quality Act) has changed its requirements in many areas of review since 2005 and the Irvine Company and City of Orange are aware of that. Greenhouse gas emissions from a project are currently of uttermost importance to the State. They danced around it last night with no answer as to how this project would comply.

The City Council was also very concerned as residents had argued about fire danger in Santiago Canyon and evacuations concerning this project. They had City Fire staff (not State) to answer questions and didn't argue the answers. Irvine company and City Fire staff claimed that fuel modification plans would be working and so no fire evacuations would be necessary in their project. Two private roads for the project residents would be sufficient in case of a fire! (see attached photo of the plan and tell them what you think about that!) Residents argued that the project was surrounded by wildfire danger and fuel modification was not enough, new homes had been lost in the San Diego fire last fall despite fule modification. They argued that no OC homes with this type of fuel modification had been lost, so they were confident.

The traffic studies that were done in 2005 were city studies...and how the project would affect the city's roads and it was assumed that tollways would absorb much of those affects. Traffic studies of affects on Santiago Cyn Rd, east of the project, were not done...that's us folks! It is assumed that there may be up to 10,000 more trips a day coming from these 40000 new homes. How many are going to travel east on Santiago??

The runoff from the project is proposed to end up at Limestone Creek rather than the Lake, with runoff channels coming down south of the project.The TIC also claimed that there will be wildland attributes preserved along Santiago Road with Oak trees and riparean habitat undisturbed. (see attachment; How these channels, pipes, whatever, are going to be built underground and not disturb the "preserved" Oak tree roots and riparean habitat is beyond my comprehension! What do you think?)

So...Why am I giving to you all this info? Because this is your time to act Today is the last day to submit your comments and have them heard before the final vote!

The Orange City Council, knowing that a new lawsuit against them and the Irvine Company will take affect if they approve these tract maps, have put off the final vote until Tuesday, March 25, at 4:30 pm. They are accepting public comment via email or letter until TODAY ONLY, Wednesday , March 19 th.

Remember this: Developers, no matter how big they are, are not above State law. Unfortunately, it's the public's responibility to see thru the enforcement of those laws!

Email your comments to the Orange City Council IMMEDIATELY : <mailto:citycouncil@cityoforange.org> citycouncil@cityoforange.org

Send via mail to: Orange City Council, 300 East Chapman, Orange, CA 92866
Tel# 714-744-2225

For further information contact Chay Peterson @ <mailto:Sprockethead@cox.net> Sprockethead@cox.net
Canyon land Conservation Fund

[Rockinthecasbah]

we dont need more houses in the area for sure.. but as a side note.... if you are riding the road in a huge group of riders can you please try and keep it in the bike lane. so people can get by you to get to work

[lkn2ryd]

Que? You must be talking about the Como Sunday morning ride.? I don't know that ride, but I hear it is fast and can get big. As for your request that the big groups give some room...I agree. I like the occassional "Peleton" ride however, they do seem to morph into a road hogging cloud of colorful maniacs. I think the original senders larger concern surrounds the impact on the area as a whole. It very well could affect the mtn biking in the area...more people living there, more congestion in the local mtns, etc.

Your request, Rockinthecasbah, is duely noted and will be, unfortunately, lost in the testosterone overload when those big group rides bunch-up.

[Rockinthecasbah]

yeah i know it will be lost but its the first time i have seen the road come up. As for the plan to build tract homes I'm reading a book on chaparral ecosystems that gives alot of good reasons house there arent a good idea. I love the area and would hate to see it more developed I think it already has too many houses also that is prime low elevation mt king habitat and would hate to see it lost

[SheDevil]

Well...when it gets down to it...bikes have the same rights as cars on the road...beware if you plan to crowd them or get upset.... I don't think anyone tries to block traffic intentionally.

[CPATCRASH]

Originally Posted by SheDevil

Well...when it gets down to it...bikes have the same rights as cars on the road...beware if you plan to crowd them or get upset.... I don't think anyone tries to block traffic intentionally.

I road ride too! And I agree we have to obey the same laws. So that being said, if there is a large group in the middle of the road shouldn't they be going the speed limit? If not then stay in the bike lane.

Now back to the topic. Yes there are to many houses!!!

[Pickettt]

I've been riding Como Street for about 12 years now. True, we should stay in the bike lane. However, this ride is normally 80-90 riders strong, and it's nearly impossible to keep that many riders wrangled into a three foot wide lane. The ride also falls on
Sunday morning, and there is rarely traffic in the canyon at that time. All told, we may get passed by three or four cars in the canyon on Sunday mornings. During the week may be a completely different story, I don't know.
I hope the decline of the housing market puts a snafu on any housing plans. At least that would be something positive coming out of the slump. Besides, don't OC residents learn anything from Malibu residents? I hope Como Street doesnt become a sightseeing tour for burned up homes that never should've been there in the first place.

[hoovermd]

The CVC is pretty clear on the bike lane thing.... however the hilighted section could be used to argue that 90+ riders in a bike lane is in itself a hazard to be avoided


Permitted Movements from Bicycle Lanes

21208. (a) Whenever a bicycle lane has been established on a roadway pursuant to Section 21207, any person operating a bicycle upon the roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride within the bicycle lane, except that the person may move out of the lane under any of the following situations:
(1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle, vehicle, or pedestrian within the lane or about to enter the lane if the overtaking and passing cannot be done safely within the lane.
(2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
(3) When reasonably necessary to leave the bicycle lane to avoid debris or other hazardous conditions.
(4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized.
(b) No person operating a bicycle shall leave a bicycle lane until the movement can be made with reasonable safety and then only after giving an appropriate signal in the manner provided in Chapter 6 (commencing with Section 22100) in the event that any vehicle may be affected by the movement.

Amended Sec. 5, Ch. 674, Stats. 1996. Effective January 1, 1997.

[slowSSer]

good gawd, this east orange project is still happening? I worked for a environmental company that was ghost-writing the CEQA/SEIR document for this site. the main issue with developing the area is a huge historic landfill that was closed even before the current regulations of plastic linings and liquid removal.

[lkn2ryd]

Hey slowsser. Curious where the "historic" landfill is. My friends live in Silverado and Modjeska. I know of the old landfill at the top of Santiago Cyn. Rd. are there others??? PM me if you like. Thanks.
Simon (Lkn2Ryd)

[slowSSer]

Originally Posted by lkn2ryd

Hey slowsser. Curious where the "historic" landfill is. My friends live in Silverado and Modjeska. I know of the old landfill at the top of Santiago Cyn. Rd. are there others??? PM me if you like. Thanks.
Simon (Lkn2Ryd)

simon- that's the one- it's near the toll road exit with the chained off road on the north side of the canyon.

the co that was doing the CEQA docs for this site tried to send me out to take pics of the area- there is a large chain link fence with barbed wire that prevented me from doing so at the time. oh well.

apparently there are more old/closed landfills in OC than we know- y'all know about the one over behind UCI near Bison and Macarthur? well, they built houses on it and now there are a few houses with foundation issues. amazing. the geotech that did that one should be fired.

[jcampbell]

The landfill is just after the OLD OLD Saddleback raceway. The entrance is the paved road across from the chp. It has that little Water hose hanging before the gate. I remember how deep that canyon was when I was a kid. I can't believe how fast it filled up.

Everyone always complains about new houses. I remember people complaning about the houses on the cow pasture in Orange. The ones across from Peters. Even those houses had problems with methane and slider windows that would be eaten away. My dad built houses back then and he had a lot of foundation damages over there and that was just cow patties.

I can't imagine living on top of all the crap that was dumped at the dump. When I was a kid, everything got dumped including paint and batteries and whatever shit didn't sell at the garage sale. It wasn;t until it started to fill up that they started to really watch what was being dumped. And even then, people snuck so many chemicals through. I WOULDN"T EVEN THINK ABOUT LIVING ON TOP OF THAT CHEMICAL CANCEROUS MESS.

[slowSSer]

Originally Posted by jcampbell

I can't imagine living on top of all the crap that was dumped at the dump. When I was a kid, everything got dumped including paint and batteries and whatever shit didn't sell at the garage sale. It wasn;t until it started to fill up that they started to really watch what was being dumped. And even then, people snuck so many chemicals through. I WOULDN"T EVEN THINK ABOUT LIVING ON TOP OF THAT CHEMICAL CANCEROUS MESS.

exactly the issue.

hell, I remember when jeffery road in irvine was dirt, culver had only stop signs and the block of land bordered byculver, harvard, the 405 and the 5 was all farmland.

"orange county" used to mean oranges, for focks sakes!