Zone 1 & 2 Training

[dubjay]

So I'm reading that a good way to improve endurance is to do a lot of Zone 1 and Zone 2 training.

For me, based on a MHR of 189, that would mean keeping my HR between 113-122 for Zone 1 and 122-141 for Zone 2.

Is this type of training effective? I find I have a hard time keeping my HR that low unless I'm really just cruising along a bike path or something.

For example, I rode the Toad Festival on my 6" AM bike, taking my time, looking for toads, etc. My total roll time was 4:10:34.

Here's how much time I spent in each HR zone:

Zone 1 - 0:00:08
Zone 2 - 0:14:12
Zone 3 - 0:44:00
Zone 4 - 1:36:01
Zone 5 - 1:34:57

What do you guys think? Does my HR just like being high?

[OffRoadie]

Max heart rate is not the useful metric for setting up your zones. You need to find your Lactate Threshold Heart Rate first.

Do a 30 minute time trial, and find your average heart rate for the last 20 minutes. That's approximately your LTHR. That is also the beginning of Zone 5.

[allison]

Let's try this again... (stupid internet issues at work).

Zone 1 & 2 training I thought was usually for active recovery. It should be painfully slow. I've only done it once

Unless you are training to be competitive in 24 hour races or hundies, I'd say just get out and ride. Only worry about your HR in-so-far as you need to be able to ride all day. So don't go out and race pace (Zone 4-5) the first 10 miles cause if you are shooting for 40-50 the last 10-15 will be tough.

Toad Fest your HR was probably a bit higher than you'd want for "training", but were you riding with others? Was it pretty warm throughout? Heat slightly affects my HR (body working harder to cool off, HR doesn't recover as well, etc).

I still say just get out and ride as many long rides as possible and back those up with other long rides and then active recovery rides.

Just get in miles for "base" and your endurance will go.

There's a few images that get posted around MTBR every now and then. The more base "blocks" you build up on the bottom layer of your personal fitness pyramid, the better your endurance will be.

[lukewiens]

+1 to finding your lactate threshold and building your zones off of that.

when i first started training, zone 1 felt pretty dang slow...but as your fitness improves...you will be able to maintain higher speeds at a lower heart rate. so now....it doesn't feel so slow anymore, i can actually push a little and still stay low.

keep working....but zone 1 training is effective. good training is a balancing act between volume, intensity, and recovery. too much of one, and the others will suffer.

[allison]

Originally Posted by lukewiens

+1 to finding your lactate threshold and building your zones off of that.

Where locally (or how?) would you do the 30 minute TT? I don't know of anywhere that you wouldn't run into stop lights and be forced to slow down. Even on a bike path (like the one following 76, or SART) you have to watch out for others, and the one on 76 you'd have to stop and turn around.

Just curious. I don't find that I can get as high a HR on the trainer as on the road itself. I'm sure doing hills wouldn't really help either.

[LetsRide]

allison - Have you seriously looked at personal training others. it could be quite lucrative. You have the practical experience of taking up mtb racing and building up to some results to be very proud of......

Keep up your good work....

You need a STR name change to PTallison......

Originally Posted by allison

Let's try this again... (stupid internet issues at work).

Zone 1 & 2 training I thought was usually for active recovery. It should be painfully slow. I've only done it once

Unless you are training to be competitive in 24 hour races or hundies, I'd say just get out and ride. Only worry about your HR in-so-far as you need to be able to ride all day. So don't go out and race pace (Zone 4-5) the first 10 miles cause if you are shooting for 40-50 the last 10-15 will be tough.

Toad Fest your HR was probably a bit higher than you'd want for "training", but were you riding with others? Was it pretty warm throughout? Heat slightly affects my HR (body working harder to cool off, HR doesn't recover as well, etc).

I still say just get out and ride as many long rides as possible and back those up with other long rides and then active recovery rides.

Just get in miles for "base" and your endurance will go.

There's a few images that get posted around MTBR every now and then. The more base "blocks" you build up on the bottom layer of your personal fitness pyramid, the better your endurance will be.

[dubjay]

Originally Posted by allison

Where locally (or how?) would you do the 30 minute TT? I don't know of anywhere that you wouldn't run into stop lights and be forced to slow down. Even on a bike path (like the one following 76, or SART) you have to watch out for others, and the one on 76 you'd have to stop and turn around.

Just curious. I don't find that I can get as high a HR on the trainer as on the road itself. I'm sure doing hills wouldn't really help either.

This was my next question as well. I find I can't get my HR as high on a trainer either. Thanks for asking

[lukewiens]

i do my 30 minute tests on the spin bike at the gym. that way there is no outside interference. plus, you will want to duplicate conditions exactly for future tests...down to cadence, nutrition, etc.

as for testing...you gotta want that cowbell!! during that 20 minute go period, you gotta nail it. i personally want to best my previous effort...that is what motivates me. the higher your threshold, the higher your zones will be which will allow greater training and a more accurate representation of your real lactate levels. so don't hold back....don't cheat yourself those few heart beats....cuz you will be training slow all season.

ps....if you aren't gritting your teeth, and if you aren't spraying the bike in front of you with spit and snot, you aren't pushing hard enough....believe me, you can get your heart rate high enough on a trainer.

[allison]

Originally Posted by LetsRide

allison - Have you seriously looked at personal training others. it could be quite lucrative. You have the practical experience of taking up mtb racing and building up to some results to be very proud of......

Keep up your good work....

You need a STR name change to PTallison......

I have no professional training, and unfortunately at this point can't quit my job and go back to school. I would LOVE to have a degree in nutrition/fitness, but I wasn't into either in college, so never knew it would be something I'd like. I could possibly work and go to school, but then there is no time for training

All I know is what I've picked up from numerous other sources and then just practical hands on learning


Luke - thanks for the response! So you just do 20 minutes all out and base your zones on that?

Can you post for all of our benefit's how to find the zones based on this?

Also, would it be a bad idea to do this tonight?

[jschwart73]

What do you use to calculate zones from LT?

[mp3]

It's possible to do the TT outdoors.

Flat: San Timoteo Canyon Rd. I think there's only one stop sign in 15 miles or so.

Climb: GMR or 39

Train with a power meter and you'll never go back
to the guess work of training with HR.

[Pho'dUp]

Originally Posted by allison

Where locally (or how?) would you do the 30 minute TT? I don't know of anywhere that you wouldn't run into stop lights and be forced to slow down. Even on a bike path (like the one following 76, or SART) you have to watch out for others, and the one on 76 you'd have to stop and turn around.

Santiago Canyon Rd. It's about 12.5miles from Cook's Corner to Jamboree Rd. No lights rolling road with some slight curves to it. FYI, this road kills about one bicyclist a year. I still ride it though, and so do plenty of other cyclists, roller bladers etc.

[Blue Rat]

For lactate threshold testing would running on a track for 30 minutes yield the same measurement as a 30 minute TT on a bike? Probably easier to produce a consistant effort at your LT by running, albiet not as much fun as on a bike.

[allison]

Originally Posted by mp3

It's possible to do the TT outdoors.

Flat: San Timoteo Canyon Rd. I think there's only one stop sign in 15 miles or so.

Climb: GMR or 39

Train with a power meter and you'll never go back
to the guess work of training with HR.

Next time I have an extra grand lying around...

Originally Posted by Pho'dUp

Santiago Canyon Rd. It's about 12.5miles from Cook's Corner to Jamboree Rd.

Too far for me to test on any kind of regular basis

[lukewiens]

Originally Posted by mp3

Train with a power meter and you'll never go back
to the guess work of training with HR.

I cannot wait to be able to afford a power tap for my MTB. Dang things aint cheap...nah mean! But all of my friends who are at the top of their sports use power as their primary training tool.

as for the test...you warm up, start to hit it for the first 10 minutes but hold back just a little, then hit the lap button and go apesh!t for 20 more minutes. cool down of course.

your average heart rate for the 20 minute period will be a rough estimation of your threshold.

here is a link from Joe Friels website....HERE.

the test will (should) take a lot out of you. i wouldn't suggest doing this before a race. you will also want to be recovered before testing.

Originally Posted by Blue Rat

For lactate threshold testing would running on a track for 30 minutes yield the same measurement as a 30 minute TT on a bike? Probably easier to produce a consistant effort at your LT by running, albiet not as much fun as on a bike.

running lactate threshold usually averages 5-10 beats higher then cycling...swimming is even lower.

when training for triathlon, we had to use different zones for each sport.

[allison]

Originally Posted by lukewiens

here is a link from Joe Friels website....HERE.

the test will (should) take a lot out of you. i wouldn't suggest doing this before a race. you will also want to be recovered before testing.

Thanks! I'll probably wait a few weeks then. Or maybe Mon/Tues night if I feel like it next week.

dubjay do you mind if I further derail your thread by asking what everyone has in mind for Sunday recovery??

[Blue Rat]

Originally Posted by lukewiens

... if you aren't spraying the bike in front of you with spit and snot, you aren't pushing hard enough ...

Mental note ... don't sit in front of Luke.

[lukewiens]

Originally Posted by allison

dubjay do you mind if I further derail your thread by asking what everyone has in mind for Sunday recovery??

30 min recovery spin...stretch....do my best to avoid massive amounts of booze...then taking monday off entirely!