Ask the Expert..(MP3 to the courtesy phone please!)

[deja vu]

first off, thanks for entertaining my questions. I am thinking other people have the same type questions, so this will be useful to people who are interested in racing.

I think I can break down my questions to three main catagories, Training, Nutrition and Bike Setup. so here goes...

TRAINING; For this years VQ training I couldn't ride the route (and my weekends were booked), so I would put together rides covering Aliso/LW/El Moro that were around 20-25 miles and around 4000 feet of climbing, and try to do it in around 2 hours. Then I would slowly build these rides closer and closer together until I could do this three days in a row (Insert lots of recovery days at first, then slowly shrink # of recovery days to 0). I also put in a few long grinders like Blackstar/Coal Canyon to get in some mileage and sustained climbing in.
What is your training like (shoot for so many hours a week)? Any work in the gym? How about road riding, is this important? How about recovery from hard efforts, any advice?

NUTRITION; What do you eat/drink for something like VQ? I brought two 28 oz poly bottles, one protein/carb blend and one water, and filled these up at the aid stations. For food I brought a flask of Hammergel and a peanut butter and jam sandwich. (I actually brought more food but didn't eat it) Any advice? I had no camelback, everthing on the bike or stuffed into jersey pockets. How about everyday nutrition, are you more of a vegetarian, or more of a double-double animal style kinda guy? (if you don't know what a double-double animal style is, that will answer the question)

BIKE SETUP; hardtail or dual supension? Should my bike weigh under a certain amount to be competitive? (mine is 28 pounds) What tires and pressure do you use? I tend to be a bit of a pedal masher, gear down and spin more, or just keep it real?

Any comments appreciated!

[tbowren]

I will take this opportunity to add another question I've been wanting to ask Mario.

I noticed you won the 8hr Solo Hurkey Creek last year. How does your training differ for a lap based event like that with numerous short climbs versus VQ, which has longer sustained climbs?

[mp3]

Wow that's a lot of questions to cover at once.

I'll take them one at a time. The bike question is the easiest in my opinion. I'm coming from a 26" geared POV. I won't even get into the 26" vs 29" or the SS vs gears thing. =) I'll leave that to the SS and 29 experts of STR.

If you have two bikes I don't think it's a question of hardtail vs suspension as much as
a) What's the race course like? or
b) How long will I be riding?

Some courses a hardtail would be better while suspension is the way to go for others and
many times that's a personal decision. Someones perfect hardtail course is an excellent suspension course for another rider. I use to need a FS for some races when I first started racing, but now I prefer a hardtail. It's based on your riding style.

Same is true for the duration of an event. What's long is relative. Some events, like a 24 hour solo, I'd die without suspension but a 100 mile race is a bit short for me so my first thought would be hardtail. Once I found out more about the terrain I could make a decision.

I think the hard case is if you have one bike. Do you choose a HT or a FS bike? I'd ask what are you going to race? XC? 100 milers? 12/24 hour solos? A little bit of
everything to find what you're good at? If I were starting out all over again and I could only have one bike I'd probably go with a FS. Might be heavy for an XC but would be easier on the body for longer races. Also if it's your only bike you'll be training on it and training on a HT can beat you up pretty good day after day. =)

Light vs Heavy: Is a 28 lb bike heavy? Is that going to be for downhill? XC? Endurance?
I have no clue about DH, it's not my thing. For XC and endurance that's a bit more weight that I'd like to race but I've raced a backup bike that was 30 lbs at a 24 hour solo before. Can you win or place at an event with a 28 lb bike? Yeah sure if the engine is strong enough, maybe there's only 2 people in the category....depends on who shows up to race and the type of race. I think lighter is better, but there's a point of diminishing returns. Where that point is, is probably related to your power to weight ratio.

What I did:
I rode (not raced) a hardtail for years and swore by it. Then I tried suspension and thought I'd never
go back to a HT... ever. Silly me. Now the bike I choose is based on the terrain and duration of a race.
I train on both a HT and FS, depends what my workout is and what race is next on the schedule. The HTs
are in the low 20s and the FS is a little heavier.

Let's see if I opened a whole can of worms.

[BrewMaster]

Mario, I thought you were going to ride the AIR 9 for VQ?

[genusmtbkr5]

I can tell that this will be a great thread. It's now a "sticky" in the race forum.

[allison]

Will you accept answers from amateurs?

[deja vu]

Originally Posted by allison

Will you accept answers from amateurs?

of course, bring it on!

[Man blong Gaua]

"BIKE SETUP; hardtail or dual supension? Should my bike weigh under a certain amount to be competitive? (mine is 28 pounds) What tires and pressure do you use? I tend to be a bit of a pedal masher, gear down and spin more, or just keep it real?"

I agree on choosing the type of bike for the type of race your doing. I would ideally have choosen a 24Lbs, dual suspension (100mm front/rear), xc racer bike with a comfortable seat for the VQ. Alas, I had only the Yeti 575, a beautiful bike (esp. for the downhills) but weighing in at 29Lbs. I was very happy with my results but know that the extra weight means extra time, likely 10-20 mins on that long a distance.
I ran 35psi on my tubeless setup and would do the same again. It provided enough rigidity for low rolling resistance while also keeping me in close contact w/the ground on all those switchback descents. With a tube type setup I would run 45psi and back off a little on the speed through the corners and rocks.
I too am a gear masher but one of the things I learned en route to riding the VQ was to spin the steep stuff in order to have energy for the final climbs.
Great thread...

[deja vu]

Originally Posted by mp3

think lighter is better, but there's a point of diminishing returns. Where that point is, is probably related to your power to weight ratio.

I train on both a HT and FS, depends what my workout is and what race is next on the schedule. The HTs
are in the low 20s and the FS is a little heavier.

Lotso questions, lotso answers!!
I stick mainly to endurance races, off road Tri (XTERRA) 24 hours (NOT solo, 5 man!), Super-D and WS races, but I'd like to try some XC at Fontana and Rim Nordic too. I also have a DH bike (Iron Horse 7.7) that I race.

Sounds like a light FS rig might work best for me. I'm 5'10" and range from 150-155 lbs. I was considering getting a Turner Nitrous, but I heard that might not survive more than one season. At the same time, I would like to try a HT 29'r, some racers rave about these. (I need multiple bikes!) Whatever I get sounds like it needs to be lighter though, I will shoot for 25 or below. I have seen some nice Felt and Scott bikes, but $$. When I decide, most likely I will buy a frame and then build it up with existing parts.

Any thoughts on light but sturdy wheelsets? Any to avoid?

[RidetheRAAM4]

Originally Posted by deja vu

of course, bring it on!

I can answer the nutrition question!

Its simple for when you are out on rides...Find what works for you! Me personally (I used to get cramps really bad, I mean like 20 miles and I would be cramping up and not very much climbing, like 2000ft or so) I can not eat any solid foods (well almost any) while riding. I never drink plain water either. Everything I drink is mixed and I mix it to last me per hour.

Personally I do 20oz of water per hour and about 250 calories per hour but it might be like 270 I am not 100% sure. I use cliff shot electrolyte drink mix and mix in 4.5 scoops which is 240 calories (except I think the new containers have different serving sizes). Then I have another bottle with Hammer Nutritions sustained energy that I take a sip of every hour on the hour along with my endurolytes. With this nutrition plan I went from easily cramping on almost nothing rides to doing the CC with no cramping and it all tasted good without having to eat mustard or vinegar or pickle juice or whatever.

I know the for the RAAM, I think about 90% of their diet is liquid. They drink a lot of ensure. I take ensure with me out on regular/training rides. I used to try the whole power bar/cliff bar type thing and I could eat one or two, but they just made me sick to my stomach.

So, try out lots of different things. Find something that works and stick with it. Even take some time to calculate out how much of what you need to eat/drink each hour or each half hour or whatever and always keep on track. Even if you don't feel hungry or thirsty. If you miss a sip or anything like that, don't try to make it up later because your body can only absorb so much. Check out www.ride424.com for some good endurance training tips. That's where I read most of the stuff I learned.

Originally Posted by deja vu

Lotso questions, lotso answers!!
I stick mainly to endurance races, off road Tri (XTERRA) 24 hours (NOT solo, 5 man!), Super-D and WS races, but I'd like to try some XC at Fontana and Rim Nordic too. I also have a DH bike (Iron Horse 7.7) that I race.

Sounds like a light FS rig might work best for me. I'm 5'10" and range from 150-155 lbs. I was considering getting a Turner Nitrous, but I heard that might not survive more than one season. At the same time, I would like to try a HT 29'r, some racers rave about these. (I need multiple bikes!) Whatever I get sounds like it needs to be lighter though, I will shoot for 25 or below. I have seen some nice Felt and Scott bikes, but $$. When I decide, most likely I will buy a frame and then build it up with existing parts.

Any thoughts on light but sturdy wheelsets? Any to avoid?

I tried a 69'er before and didn't like it too much. Being a smaller guy, only 5'9, I don't think I fit as well on the bike with the bigger wheels or something. I don't know, just not my thing.

[mp3]

Originally Posted by BrewMaster

Mario, I thought you were going to ride the AIR 9 for VQ?

Ok, on with the questions. I like the Air9 and see a place for it in my set of bikes. The reason I didn't ride it was a lack of time to test out a setup I'd like to race. Ya see it's not my bike. It's Chris's (from Niner) personal bike. He was nice enough to let me ride it. He also gave me the thumbs up to swap out parts, but I didn't have time to do that and ride it for a few weeks to see how it would feel. I didn't want to waste a good training event like the VQ and not learn anything about potentially racing an Air9. Maybe one of my up coming races.

[Wrecker]

Air 9 is my drool bike....

[mp3]

Originally Posted by deja vu

What is your training like (shoot for so many hours a week)? Any work in the gym? How about road riding, is this important? How about recovery from hard efforts, any advice?

Originally Posted by tbowren

I will take this opportunity to add another question I've been wanting to ask Mario.

I noticed you won the 8hr Solo Hurkey Creek last year. How does your training differ for a lap based event like that with numerous short climbs versus VQ, which has longer sustained climbs?

Training is a huge topic, but these are more specific so will be easier to answer.

Do I work in the gym? If you mean do I lift weights yes and no. Some years it fits in my training and some it doesn't. Last year it didn't fit so I didn't. I do things like pushups (both two arm and one arm), core work (like situps),.... I have a dumb bell, medicine ball and a big balance ball that I use while watching TV. Oh, another reason that my routine varies from year to year is variety....it gets sooooo boring going to the gym and doing the same workouts.

Road riding: The first 4 years of racing (this is my 7th year) I trained only on the mtb. I would do century rides on the mtb for fun but it wasn't really training. I started road riding and it made a big difference. It's just easier to keep a higher heart rate for longer periods of time than can be kept on a mtb. If you have one definitely work it in to your schedule. There are many group rides around SoCal on the weekends. Check out http://www.socalcycling.com/Group%20...GroupRides.htm

Recovery from hard efforts? Don't know what you mean by this. Adding intervals to training? Recovery from hard weeks of training?

Lap races VS climbing races: Training should get a rider ready for the event; training mirrors the event. I have a core set of workouts that I do for any type of race and I'm always doing them or variations of them. What changes are the race specific workouts. So for a lap race, like Hurkey Creek, I have several workouts that need to be done on a loop course...hence the "Fully loop junkie". It's a perfect place to train for those types of races as it's very typical with respect to distance and elevation gain.
Anyway, if it fits my schedule I'll head up to Hurkey to practice pacing, nutrition, try out new tires or gear.

For a climbing race I find myself heading to the Santa Anas alot or Glendora Mountain road every weekend to work on my climbing/pacing and get my legs used to the longer climbs.

Details on specific workouts is better found in the numerous training books or training websites. There's simply too much to cover.

[mp3]

Originally Posted by deja vu

Lotso questions, lotso answers!!
I stick mainly to endurance races, off road Tri (XTERRA) 24 hours (NOT solo, 5 man!), Super-D and WS races, but I'd like to try some XC at Fontana and Rim Nordic too. I also have a DH bike (Iron Horse 7.7) that I race.

Sounds like a light FS rig might work best for me. I'm 5'10" and range from 150-155 lbs. I was considering getting a Turner Nitrous, but I heard that might not survive more than one season. At the same time, I would like to try a HT 29'r, some racers rave about these. (I need multiple bikes!) Whatever I get sounds like it needs to be lighter though, I will shoot for 25 or below. I have seen some nice Felt and Scott bikes, but $$. When I decide, most likely I will buy a frame and then build it up with existing parts.

Any thoughts on light but sturdy wheelsets? Any to avoid?

There's a saying I've heard about bikes -- you can have only two of the following three: light, strong and cheap. There are plenty of local bike shops that would be happy to set you up with a bike.

I think a light bike is even more important in an endurance race than a XC race. I mean think about it...all that extra dead weight, hours upon hours.... No thank you.

Wheelsets: The wheel sets I race came from The Path bike shop. I went in, told them what I wanted/needed and they built me some great wheels that met my requirements. I've never had any problems with them.

[allison]

Originally Posted by deja vu

I think I can break down my questions to three main catagories, Training, Nutrition and Bike Setup. so here goes...

TRAINING;

NUTRITION;

BIKE SETUP;

Any comments appreciated!

To train best for lots of long fire road climbs, you’ve got to find the longer fire roads (or roads in general) to train on. Mathis and Meadows just aren’t long enough to really simulate Blackstar, Maple Springs, and Main Divide.

Last year (07) Justin and I trained a lot on the route itself, mostly to test our time. We were unable to do this for 08 due to the fire closures. We went over to Blackstar and did race pace up to Beek’s once around the holidays, and then did a training ride starting over there once so that Steph and Dan could get a feel for the first part of the event. It was a much slower pace and a ride I struggled on, since most of our training rides aren’t up down up down up down up… They are somewhat long intervals with little to no recovery on the descents since they are too steep to really relax, and there’s very little place to eat while on the bike.

Instead, we did a lot of training on ITT, similar to last year, and since we wanted to race Southridge, I thought maybe it would help us to do the XC races every other weekend to work on max HR and speed over a much shorter period of time. I knew I could do quite a bit of miles, but could I do them at a faster pace? XC racing really helped me speed up this year IMO. Not best for someone like Mario training for ultra distance, but for someone just getting into racing and attempting to be competitive, I think the speed work has been great. We unfortunately didn’t get any rides as long or with as much climbing as VQ (we did rides longer than CC when training in 07). I don’t think this was detrimental at all. The one thing I wish I would have done more in training would’ve been to train without stopping. Race pace is almost impossible for me to simulate, but you can train to not stop at all (to remove clothes, to eat, to chat, to wait up for people, etc.).

So, try to get out to the fire roads and just climb as much as you can. Some people I think just go to Blackstar, Skyline, ITT, etc. and do intervals. Climb up, descend. Climb up, descend, etc. Not fun, but training can’t always be enjoyable!

Definitely get the nutrition figured out ahead of time. What works for me may not work for you, and what works for Joe Smith may not work for either of us. I didn’t feel I had time to stop at aid stations for refilling, so I brought 3L of water (mixed with Elete drops), a 21oz bottle of Cytomax, had a bottle of Perpetuem in my pack (which I unfortunately hardly touched), a full Hammer gel flask. In my hip pockets (I really need to come up with something better, btw) I had Clif Bloks (I ate four), 2 Fruit Leathers (I had one), Sport Beans (I had half a bag), and an Odwalla bar and the Mojo bar they gave us with our packets. I ate the Mojo bar early on, and most of the Odwalla bar before 4 Corners. I did NOT eat enough. I want to get like a 2L small pak that doesn’t interfere with my jersey pockets. Also, my bike probably isn’t ideal for races like this (I can’t have two frame bottles). Not sure how to deal with that in the future.

But, Hammer has trial size packets of Endurolytes (do you need something to stem the cramping?), HEED, Sustained ENergy, Perpetuem, etc. Order some up! Try different gel’s/gu’s. Which ones can you eat after 35 miles and which can’t you? Can you eat a bar while climbing, or do you need a protein drink mix? Can you survive on gel and energy drinks alone? (some can). Try different things in training, and even in your weekly rides to find out what you like and what you don’t like.

If, like me, you aren’t super speedy, don’t plan to stop for 10 minutes at every aid station. It is difficult to have everything within reach!


Bike, I think it’s been mentioned, go with what you are comfortable on. I did CC on my Dos last year and it was good. I really had enjoyed having a granny ring for climbing this year, but figured I would climb in the middle ring when I could. While I liked my 1x9 trial, I think the dual ring set up is better for racing. I have an easier gear for when my legs need a break or gets steep, and then the middle ring for any time I can pedal the gear. As opposed to using the 28T ring I have a higher lower and top gear and go faster on climbs when in middle, and on descents/flats.

I am thinking I want to go back to a dual ring set up on the Dos and still use it for some races. I really like the FS 29er, though. The problem is mostly just the lack of bottles. I am not sure the weight was such an issue as has been mentioned. The bike climbs extremely well and I felt way more comfortable descending on it than I do on the Dos. The seat post also goes down, and it doesn’t on the Dos. The other thing… MUCH less fatigue on the FS than on the soft tail. For those finishing in 6 hours fatigue may not be such an issue, but for those of us out riding for 8-9 hours… fatigue does become a bigger issue, and anytime I’m slightly more comfortable it makes the day a little easier. Could I have climbed slightly faster? Maybe… but I would’ve been a lot slower on every descent, and a lot more uncomfortable on the final 4.5 miles to the finish line.