Nutrition and Hydration

[slowSSer]

so, I had an observation that leads me to a racing question.

setup:

y'all who do the VQ with two water bottles and jersey pockets full of gu- and make it with said two bottles from aid station to aid station. likely, one bottle has some form of energy drink, but that's not the issue.

questions:

are you guys starting out the race completely hydrated to the point of "clear and copious"? (sorry for that- i couldn't think of putting it another way)

are you hydrating just as much as myself, but spending so much less time on the trail that a full huge camelback isnt needed?

gu:

i saw that someone mentioned (Padre?) one packet every half hour. is that standard? do you normally ride with gu so that your body is used to it? do you take anything else such as a protein bar? (take too long to digest?)


I only ask as i'm really hating longer rides with a camelback, especially while single speeding- a wet back just isnt fun. putting all required tools in an underseat bag isnt an issue- its all the damn extra water!

for some background, my current coup-ready ability allows me to make 20 or so miles with two waterbottles and said seat stash, but that's a ride like whiting/old camp or many ups in aliso (where there is a drinking fountain refil done, but not really needed) and not the same elevation gains.

[Keith B]

I took advice from a friend who races. I drank a fair bit of water for the 2days before hand and took 2 bottles between aid stations. 1 bottle had a soy protein based drink in for endurance the other was an energy drink with electrolytes. I took 2 Gu flasks - one with a thick protein based fluid and the other Gu and water. Worked out perfect for me - Big thanks to Terry Best on Sho-Air.
One shot of Gu every 30-40mins works for me but to be honest you need to try the different products yourself to see how your body reacts to differing combinations of ingredients, glycemic indices etc. I found Cytomax to be great for allowing you to push harder in your LT and Perpetuem is great for long term fuelling. Good luck!

Originally Posted by slowSSer

so, I had an observation that leads me to a racing question.

setup:

y'all who do the VQ with two water bottles and jersey pockets full of gu- and make it with said two bottles from aid station to aid station. likely, one bottle has some form of energy drink, but that's not the issue.

questions:

are you guys starting out the race completely hydrated to the point of "clear and copious"? (sorry for that- i couldn't think of putting it another way)

are you hydrating just as much as myself, but spending so much less time on the trail that a full huge camelback isnt needed?

gu:

i saw that someone mentioned (Padre?) one packet every half hour. is that standard? do you normally ride with gu so that your body is used to it? do you take anything else such as a protein bar? (take too long to digest?)


I only ask as i'm really hating longer rides with a camelback, especially while single speeding- a wet back just isnt fun. putting all required tools in an underseat bag isnt an issue- its all the damn extra water!

for some background, my current coup-ready ability allows me to make 20 or so miles with two waterbottles and said seat stash, but that's a ride like whiting/old camp or many ups in aliso (where there is a drinking fountain refil done, but not really needed) and not the same elevation gains.

[SScheetz]

I’m not one of those super fast guys, but I do ok. I adjust my routine frequently depending on what I’m reading and who I’m listening to.

Here’s my current routine:

3 days before an event is my final ride. It consists of 2 hours of easy spinning, light on the pedals, low aerobic level.

2 nights before an event, eat the big meal loaded with protein and complex carbs.

The day before an event I drink just a little more than normal and eat a little less then normal. No loading the night before. I want my gut fairly empty by race time.

A couple of hours before the start I eat an egg (omega 3’s only) and low fiber simple bread or cereal of some kind and a banana or cliff bar. Drink some coffee and fruit juice. That’s it for solid food.

Everyone has differing opinions about nutrition during a race. I’ve tried several products and always return to Cytomax, Hammer Gel and Hammer Endurolytes. This is contrary to Hammer’s MO.

For races/rides like VQ I’ll consume 3 large bottles of Cytomax, 9 gels (I use the flask) and about 12 Endurolytes. If the heat were turned up a bit I would have consumed another bottle of Cytomax and a few more Endurolytes.

I train with all the same stuff. I never go with plain water. I only wear a Camelback on long rides with no support. You have to put the extra fluids somewhere.

That's it. I'm not backing this up with anything scientific. It just works for me.

[klowie]

I did almost the same routine as you and had the same results. I felt great, had good energy, and was passing people going up Maple Springs. Then about a mile from four corners the cramps started. I limped to the top, cruised down HJ and begged for some salt tablets at Aid station 2. Some angelic woman working the station gave me the tough love lecture about salt tablets not working, and then handed me some magic pills. I think they were called Enduramax. She said you need to take one every hour during an endurance event. They worked, or at least my brain told my legs that they worked. I guess I'll try them for next time.

Originally Posted by mechmann

I too need to learn more about what makes/breaks a VQ. I have always rode with a Camelbak, recently I started carrying two bottles on long rides (still with a camelbak). In one bottle i have Cytomax, the other has Perpetuem. For CC I took Sportlegs before the race and at aid station #1, I did a Gu every 40 mins and drank probably 2 liters of water over the course of the race, the Cytomax was gone by aid station #1 refilled and gone again by HJ, the Perpetuem was only consumed on the climb from aid station #1 to Santiago Peak. I also had OJ and a bannana at aid station #1. Unfortunately I suffered horrible cramps in both quads and hams from about the 20 mile mark on. I am thinking I may need to try Enduralytes or something.

I don't have a problem stomaching anything on rides. I just need to fix the whole cramping deal before next year's VQ.

[Pain Freak]

I'm also not a fast guy, but I will say what has helped me with the endurance events like double centuries.

This is not for VQ, but what I found works for me in the longer rides of 6+ hours, is to consume calories. I think Perpetuem is about the best thing I've found that works really well. You can mix about 4000 calories in a tall bottle if you want, but it gets a little thick at that level. I also found their gel (Hammer) to work better then any other out there, and I use them frequently. I like to stay mostly with water as I have a hard time dealing with those sweet concoctions. For cramps, the endurolytes have saved my butt to many times to count again a Hammer Product. But keep in mind what works for one person might not work for another. I have found that most people who try the Hammer Products become solid customers and promote the product because it works for them.


Now, do I get that sponsorship???

[mp3]

I usually make sure I'm hydrated two day's before an event like the VQ. All I had in the morning was a cup of coffee then one bottle while I was riding up and down the start area.
- Took one small bottle with drink mix from the start to aid #1. I didn't even finish all of it...cool temps.
- aid #1 to aid #2 I took 2 large bottles; one just plain water and one with drink mix. I didn't drink from the peak until aid #2...there's no time.
- aid #2 to the finish. I took one bottle with drink mix. Note that while my bike was being worked on I drank about half a bottle of plain water.
-Finally, a post ride beer. Post ride carbs

Cramps can be caused by a number of things so it's hard to tell without knowing a person's riding/training history. Assuming the person is used to the mileage and intensity of effort then I'd guess not enough H20. Note that body fat requires a person to drink more. If you are drinking "enough" then you may be a salty sweater so you have to replace more of it. Endurolytes, NUUN, sportlegs...are supposed to deal with that but I've not found anything better than ThermoTabs. Only $6 at your local RiteAid. My racing bud, Louise, and I have tried them out in places like Costa Rica, the Canadian Rockies, The Alps and we haven't found anything better for preventing cramps. If ya do start getting them then take 2-3 and 20-30 minutes later they're gone. Simple!

GU: I "make" my own...Perpeteum in the form of a paste. Sometimes mixed with hammer gel for taste.

[Schecky]

Not to hijack the thread, but how about after the ride?
Do you all use any recovery drink or post ride regimen?

[mp3]

Forgot to mention that taking too much "gu" without drinking enough water can also cause cramps. Your stomach will take water from other parts of the body to aid in digestion if it needs to. Always, have a few swigs with gels.

[slowSSer]

cramps can be the sign of something more serious- if you're cramping, its likely a lack of salt (or too much gu/not enough water, but that's another story). if cramping you could be OVERLY hydrated and have diluted the salts (electrolytes) in your system.

now, i can't remember the proper name of this, but EMT's giving more water to a person that's hyperhydrated can cause them to die- not kidding. it's happened at several triathlons over the past few years that it's made it into the USATri newsletters as a "item of significnat note".

Originally Posted by Schecky

Not to hijack the thread, but how about after the ride?
Do you all use any recovery drink or post ride regimen?

recovery drink of choice: Stone IPA

[Schecky]

Originally Posted by slowSSer

recovery drink of choice: Stone IPA

Man, I should have seen that one coming!

[slowSSer]

Originally Posted by Schecky

Man, I should have seen that one coming!

i love my wife- she had a 6er on ice in her jeep at the finish line!

[Padre]

I won't be using Perpetuem again as it doesn't play nice with bellies. Normally, it's a great carb supplier that gets rid of the "geez i'm hungry" feeling but I don't think 6-8 hours is long enough to need it. It just is gross.

My wife and I had the same plan and it's one she uses for most of her endurance events.

2 bottles of Heed every two hours along with 1 flask of H-gel. This time, one of the bottles was Perpetuem. Done with that stuff though.

I've learned for these events, don't carry more than you need, don't drink or eat more than you need...and for pete's sake...DON'T STOP at the aid stations or to "rest." Rest is what you do when it's OVER. Stopping at the aid stations sucks your precious time away.

My first two VQ's I traveled with a Camelback. But I learned... why carry another 5lbs of water across the Main Divide if I won't need that water till I'm hitting the peak?

Started the event with one 20 oz bottle. Finished it by bottom of M-way. Picked up two bottles, (forgot to pick up another flask) finished by bottom of HJ. Picked up two more and a flask...only drank one by the end of the race. Could have saved the weight of that one bottle. It ain't much but everyone pushing up WHT understands what pushing lighter or pushing heavier is all about.

[Burdman]

Originally Posted by Padre

I won't be using Perpetuem again as it doesn't play nice with bellies. Normally, it's a great carb supplier that gets rid of the "geez i'm hungry" feeling but I don't think 6-8 hours is long enough to need it. It just is gross.

My wife and I had the same plan and it's one she uses for most of her endurance events.

2 bottles of Heed every two hours along with 1 flask of H-gel. This time, one of the bottles was Perpetuem. Done with that stuff though.

I've learned for these events, don't carry more than you need, don't drink or eat more than you need...and for pete's sake...DON'T STOP at the aid stations or to "rest." Rest is what you do when it's OVER. Stopping at the aid stations sucks your precious time away.

My first two VQ's I traveled with a Camelback. But I learned... why carry another 5lbs of water across the Main Divide if I won't need that water till I'm hitting the peak?

Started the event with one 20 oz bottle. Finished it by bottom of M-way. Picked up two bottles, (forgot to pick up another flask) finished by bottom of HJ. Picked up two more and a flask...only drank one by the end of the race. Could have saved the weight of that one bottle. It ain't much but everyone pushing up WHT understands what pushing lighter or pushing heavier is all about.

Thanks for the tips Padre.....but couldn't you have told me this, as you rode pass me on Trabuco to WHT, while I was standing there?

[Padre]

Originally Posted by Burdman

Thanks for the tips Padre.....but couldn't you have told me this, as you rode pass me on Trabuco to WHT, while I was standing there?

Let's be honest...I walked past you. I didn't ride much of that stuff!

[Burdman]

Originally Posted by Padre

Let's be honest...I walked past you. I didn't ride much of that stuff!

No, no...you rode past me. Granted, I have no idea of knowing if upon seeing me standing there, you quickly hopped on your bike to ride past, thus giving the illusion that you were not feeling that pain, which I'm certain was more then evident on my face at that time....but regardless, you were still on your bike and riding....nice job.

[PHAT TIRE]

Food and drink wise, I followed a lot of the similar advice here. The trick of it all is to practice these long rides and even your shorter ones by consuming the ideal foods and playing with those foods/drink mixes on the rides and learn what works best for you. One thing ideal for me might not work for you. Some guys go to mcdonalds right before a race and down flat Coca Cola but You'd find me curled up tossing it after the first 5 miles along the trail ! Once you have a formula down vary it only on practice short rides. Then of course I hydrate for two weeks b/c a doctor told me once that is how long it takes to get fully hydrated from a low hydration state. Then I carbo and protein load for 5 days prior. Careful of the carbs though b/c you don't want to get yourself too "bound up". Day of, be prepared by knowing exactly what works and what the sag support provides. For example, if Cliff bars make you sick (I love them) but that's all they have on the course, you are SOL. My 2 cents.... oh and I stay away from the brews 6 days prior and then load up afterwards but that's all mental prep. I drank 2 Newcastles after the Coup once and almost passed out!!!

[Keith B]

Wise words Mr. Phat T. Gotta find what works best for your own body and we're all different.

[PHAT TIRE]

Messages, Hot Tubs (careful reports say it causes damage immediately after excercise since the heavily strained muscle fibers tend to stay open and bleeding), Recover Drink for 2 days with occasional water or Newcastle. GET YOURSELF BIOFREEZE. It's hard to find but its like a Icy Hot/Bengay stuff that's super sweet!!! I got it from my message thearapist (not the happy ending variety).

Originally Posted by Schecky

Not to hijack the thread, but how about after the ride?
Do you all use any recovery drink or post ride regimen?