May want to keep that gas-guzzler……..

[cryan]

Originally Posted by pastamon

You people are deluded.

The Prius is NOTHING MORE than a redirecting of ecological harms.

How exactly is electricity made?

But hey, buy a Prius, slap on an Obama '08 sticker, and you've saved the world. It's just that easy.

Especially in Southern California, where people struggle to identify themselves with external signals.

Do the Prius owners need to care about the environment, or were they just looking to save a few dollars on fuel costs? I think for some the $$ precedes the environmental decision. Which goes back to the calculator at the beginning of this thread.

[L8 APEKS]

Originally Posted by DeeZee

Be careful getting an old VW and better put away some $$$ for repairs...

Nah...my first one ran strong 'til I traded it in with 200k miles on the clock. Besides, a longblock is about $150, a trans is about $150, and they are easier than pie to work on. SOOOO much room in the engine bay, and the layout is elementary.

I drove and raced 4 cyl VW's for so long, and owned so many and built so many engines for them, that I can do a headgasket in about an hour and 20 mins, and I can do an engine re-fresh (quick hone and re-ring w/ headgasket) in about 2 hrs 20 mins.

Parts are CHEEEEAP too.

[TheNightRunner]

http://www.lovecraftbiofuels.com/

[speckledtrout]

there's a lovecraft down the street from me in Silverlake. The big problem now is that so many cars have been converted in my neighborhood that people are running out of local restaurants to supply them with the used vegetable oil!

[TheNightRunner]

Originally Posted by speckledtrout

there's a lovecraft down the street from me in Silverlake. The big problem now is that so many cars have been converted in my neighborhood that people are running out of local restaurants to supply them with the used vegetable oil!

carls jr. will do it with the combo heh. soy oils and any clean oil in store works too such as soy or cvo

[pastamon]

Originally Posted by speckledtrout

I'd still rather do that than buy a Hummer, slap on a McCain sticker and screw the world.

I didn't realize that you had only two choices. I'm sorry. I thought most adults had more intelligence and imagination than to think their choices are Hummer or Prius, Obama or McCain.

But please, carry on with your "professional liberal" superior attitude. And don't forget to hate on the Republicans.

Originally Posted by cryan

Do the Prius owners need to care about the environment, or were they just looking to save a few dollars on fuel costs? I think for some the $$ precedes the environmental decision. Which goes back to the calculator at the beginning of this thread.

There's a much easier way to save on the costs, in case you didn't know. You have more choices than to sell the existing car and buy a Prius. There's public transportation, car pooling, errand clustering, figuring out ways to stay close to home, and the real killer that will surprise you --

BICYCLING.

But don't let me stop you from your mission of buy, buy, buy and consume, consume, consume. It's the American way, isn't it?

Hayull yayuh!

[speckledtrout]

Originally Posted by pastamon

I didn't realize that you had only two choices. I'm sorry. I thought most adults had more intelligence and imagination than to think their choices are Hummer or Prius, Obama or McCain.

But please, carry on with your "professional liberal" superior attitude. And don't forget to hate on the Republicans.

whoaaaaaa. if you'll reread your original post, you are the one that made it sound like we had only one choice. I was just returning your comment verbatim. I was simply replacing your liberal slams with conservative ones.

you seem to think that if someone wants to make an effort to do the right thing and make a positive choice then he's some ideological liberal nut job. i think that the truth of your comment and my rebuttal lies somewhere in the middle. i am not naive and certainly don't think that the answer to the world's problem is found in an electric/gas hybrid car. but it's certainly not fair for you to mock someone who opts to buy one. actually, i can't afford a hybrid. i find them prohibitively expensive. but i do appreciate that this current state of affairs has forced this country to get it's head out of it arse and give us more viable options.

[L8 APEKS]

Originally Posted by pastamon

But don't let me stop you from your mission of buy, buy, buy and consume, consume, consume. It's the American way, isn't it?

Hayull yayuh!

Hey, at least you know our current Presiden't foreign policy!

[L8 APEKS]

Originally Posted by speckledtrout

whoaaaaaa. if you'll reread your original post, you are the one that made it sound like we had only one choice. I was just returning your comment verbatim. I was simply replacing your liberal slams with conservative ones.

you seem to think that if someone wants to make an effort to do the right thing and make a positive choice then he's some ideological liberal nut job. i think that the truth of your comment and my rebuttal lies somewhere in the middle. i am not naive and certainly don't think that the answer to the world's problem is found in an electric/gas hybrid car. but it's certainly not fair for you to mock someone who opts to buy one. actually, i can't afford a hybrid. i find them prohibitively expensive. but i do appreciate that this current state of affairs has forced this country to get it's head out of it arse and give us more viable options.

Good point. I find it humerous that the USA makes it such a point to "Be Green." Campaigns, clubs and organizations, political agendas...but then they drive home in Hummers.

Meanwhile, many other countries don't feel the need to make a bunch of hub-bub when they do something economically responsible, and they drive bio-diesels and ultra-efficient sub-compacts.

Our system is a crock of doo. The fact is, the people who are still making money in oil or SUV sales DO NOT WANT US TO DRIVE ECONOMICAL CARS. Otherwise, we already would be.

[g-dub]

Originally Posted by L8 APEKS

Our system is a crock of doo. The fact is, the people who are still making money in oil or SUV sales DO NOT WANT US TO DRIVE ECONOMICAL CARS. Otherwise, we already would be.

Please elaborate. Because that's a big claim. When I went car shopping I looked at SUVs and economy cars, and went home with a Sentra. The "system" wasn't able to stop me. I'm a rebel, and can't live by their rules.

When the Chevy Volt comes out in 2010, I'll get in line if the price is right. Or will Big Oil stop me?

[L8 APEKS]

Originally Posted by g-dub

Please elaborate. Because that's a big claim. When I went car shopping I looked at SUVs and economy cars, and went home with a Sentra. The "system" wasn't able to stop me. I'm a rebel, and can't live by their rules.

When the Chevy Volt comes out in 2010, I'll get in line if the price is right. Or will Big Oil stop me?

Sure, I'll elaborate.

IMHO, more responsible citizens in many other countries drive smaller, more efficient vehicles because, IMHO, they are more sensitive to the concept of "the greater good" and don't share the American mentalities of "bigger is better," "keep up with the Jones", "I'll just buy it on credit, who cares if my house forecloses", etc. to quite the same degree that we do.

Many of the big automakers sell fuel-efficient vehicles overseas, to other markets...but we don't see those models here. Why? The execs don't think the economical models are viable here in the states. The reasons are many and varied, but I'm sure there's some truth in the generalization that Americans are a little more self centered.

"I'll drive what I want. If I can afford $8/gallon in my Suburban/H2/etc, it's my right."

I dunno...I just think it's a little stubborn of us as a whole. We should shrink our egos and our fat children just a little bit.

The sheep that make up the bulk of the American public are easy prey for good marketing. They just HAVE to have that 6.2L Escalade to prove to everyone else they're successful.

Yes, I'm generalizing, and yes, there are MANY more variables involved.

I've worked for a few car companies and I've seen the fuel efficient technologies that exist, and the fuel efficient versions of big brands that are marketed overseas (and are quite successful). Unfortunately, we don't get most of them here.

The Chevy Volt looks like it's trying to be a limo...shorten that bad boy by about 12" and I think it would be a decent looker!

FYI, I do own a Jeep (4.0L 6) that, due to large tires, improper gearing, and the aerodynamics of a brick, nets me ~10 to ~13mpg. But I don't commute, I don't drive it every day, and I primarily use it for 4x4 trips or to haul me, the GF, 2 kids and a 110lb dog on camping trips (the only reason I bought it - I belong to a few 4x4 clubs and it's the weekend car). I have a 4 cyl Volvo for city driving. They're boxy, but they're good! I'm not a hybrid hippie. It just bugs me to see HUNDREDS of full size, V8 SUV's on a daily basis with only 1 person in them, commuting 40+ mile round trips. And don't get me started on lifted 4x4's that are just for "show."

[g-dub]

Originally Posted by L8 APEKS

Sure, I'll elaborate.

IMHO, more responsible citizens in many other countries drive smaller, more efficient vehicles because, IMHO, they are more sensitive to the concept of "the greater good"

But what if those people are not more "good," but are rather responding to price? Is it possible that high fuel taxes, lower incomes, smaller families, and tiny roads play a factor?

SUV sales are down in the USA. Are we suddenly more altruistic, and better, or are we merely responding to price?

[92se-r]

The ONLY reason other countries drive smaller, more efficient vehicles is because the cost of gas there is twice what it is here. You swear that if any other country was a world power like us, that their people wouldn't be crazy consumers as well. Humans are consumers. No ifs buts or doubts about that.

Keeping up with the Jones' is all throughout the world. There is no greater good in the majority of people. I believe there is the most greater good in the US, not the opposite like you claim. In any world disaster, we are the FIRST to send aid. Look at Dhubai for example. We send way more aid to the Palestinians every year, and they have way more vested in helping their fellow Muslim. Dhubai is the perfect example of what happens when another country gets filthy stupid rich. Greater good my ass. Those guys are chroming out Ferraris. They have an indoor snow resort.

You want to use the housing crisis as an example? You think we are the only ones having a housing crash? You were probably thinking of Europeans when you were giving your example of how other people in other countries don't have the "keeping with the jones'" mentality. Well guess what. All those fools in Europe didn't need vacation homes on the coast of Spain. Look at where Spain's housing market is now.

We are far from being the only ones obsessed with consuming and raping resources. We just happen to be the world super power so all the spotlight is on us. You swear other people in other countries would not be doing the same thing if the roles were reversed.

Originally Posted by L8 APEKS

Sure, I'll elaborate.

IMHO, more responsible citizens in many other countries drive smaller, more efficient vehicles because, IMHO, they are more sensitive to the concept of "the greater good" and don't share the American mentalities of "bigger is better," "keep up with the Jones", "I'll just buy it on credit, who cares if my house forecloses", etc. to quite the same degree that we do.
"

[TheNightRunner]

Originally Posted by L8 APEKS

Good point. I find it humerous that the USA makes it such a point to "Be Green." Campaigns, clubs and organizations, political agendas...but then they drive home in Hummers.

Meanwhile, many other countries don't feel the need to make a bunch of hub-bub when they do something economically responsible, and they drive bio-diesels and ultra-efficient sub-compacts.

Our system is a crock of doo. The fact is, the people who are still making money in oil or SUV sales DO NOT WANT US TO DRIVE ECONOMICAL CARS. Otherwise, we already would be.

you have to remember that bio diesel is really 80% diesel, all it takes for your diesel engine to run off of vegtable oil is a converter kit that heats up the oil to a combustable temperature.

[2wheel_lee]

Originally Posted by TheNightRunner

you have to remember that bio diesel is really 80% diesel, all it takes for your diesel engine to run off of vegtable oil is a converter kit that heats up the oil to a combustable temperature.

Yup, that's all you need to do to void your Cummins warranty.

They say no more than 5% bio diesel. If you buck up for a Cummins diesel and find out the replacement cost for many of the key injection and engine components, you'd think twice about taking that risk.

I'd be quick to do it if I had a diesel with a mechanical fuel system, but none of the modern stuff.

[spookydave]

Originally Posted by L8 APEKS

FYI, I do own a Jeep (4.0L 6) that, due to large tires, improper gearing, and the aerodynamics of a brick, nets me ~10 to ~13mpg. But I don't commute, I don't drive it every day, and I primarily use it for 4x4 trips or to haul me, the GF, 2 kids and a 110lb dog on camping trips (the only reason I bought it - I belong to a few 4x4 clubs and it's the weekend car).

weekend car like the above = you are a fuel abuser just like the rest of us. haha
You might as well drive a 3/4 ton Surburan with the 8.1L big block engine. We get about the same milage but my dog has a better ride.

BTW, our burb gets that around town but does get better on the highway pulling my boat with 100 gallons of fuel.

But it's all good, I'm going to hop on a 5K bike and ride to work. I'm am reducing my footprint by using butter for chain lube.

[L8 APEKS]

Originally Posted by spookydave

weekend car like the above = you are a fuel abuser just like the rest of us. haha
You might as well drive a 3/4 ton Surburan with the 8.1L big block engine. We get about the same milage but my dog has a better ride.

BTW, our burb gets that around town but does get better on the highway pulling my boat with 100 gallons of fuel.

But it's all good, I'm going to hop on a 5K bike and ride to work. I'm am reducing my footprint by using butter for chain lube.

Well, that's why I pointed it out...but the difference is, I'm not commuting in this thing. Matter of fact, right now, I'm driving the Jeep roughly 20 miles a week average...about 80 miles a month. I drive it 7 miles to work on Monday morning and then leave it there until Wed night when I drive it back home, then maybe to the store or a ride on the weekend...just until I get my intercooler pipes fixed on my Volvo.

That's quite a bit different than 80 miles a DAY like many people do.

And besides...your Suburban can't get through Holcomb Creek or John Bull so my dog sees cooler stuff.

If I fixed my gearing, I'd probably get closer to 15 mpg...but it's $1200 I don't have right now. Don't know what exactly makes this thing such a pig with gas...even the window sticker was only good for 15 and 20 stock.

I think it's mainly the engine and the aerodynamics...because the curb weight is only about 3150 lbs. My Volvo sedan is heavier than my SUV.

But the Volvo gets mid/high 20's.

As for the other things pointed out...well, you aren't telling me anything I don't already know...hence my disclaimer about there being many other variables. But I firmly believe that overall societal philosophies are different elsewhere than they are here, and that's at least a small piece of the puzzle along with fuel prices, old city scapes with narrow roads, etc. I think it's one of the contributing factors along with everything else.

[CPATCRASH]

Originally Posted by RS VR6

My GF has one (not lifted)...the mileage is not all that great. Its got the aerodynamics of a brick.

not mine! I just found the picture. For what the Element does the mileage is not to bad. I have the 4 wheel drive and get about 25 on the highway.