Income stats in San Diego

[Pickettt]

[quote=ChipsandSalsa;287880]Yes, because I involuntarily fund programs that I do not believe in, or programs that are good ideas poorly executed.


When in the history of all mankind has it been any different?

[sladnas]

Originally Posted by ChipsandSalsa

Why?

"I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power."
--Thomas Jefferson

[el_d00der1n0]

Originally Posted by ChipsandSalsa

Why?

Well, I see poverty as a problem to be solved. I realize there will always be poor people for some reason or another, however, I don't like to see a growing gap between the rich and the poor. The problem: crime is mostly economic.

I don't want to give handouts. I think if people could be trained to do something they enjoy, they'll be happier and their children will see that they are happier and be more likely to make better decisions about their own lives.

Edit: Yeah, what Jefferson said.

[Zippy]

We, as a country, are too focused on "growth" and material posessions as indicators of success. A paradigm shift is needed. I point to shows like "My Super-Sweet 16" as indicators of our decadence and complacency.

We give too much respect and admiration to those who least deserve it: think professional athletes and movies stars. Children would rather grow up to be rich and famous as opposed to doing something meaninful and intrinsically valuable with their lives.

Life has more meaning than the net income on your 1040.

What will your legacy be?

[Pickettt]

Originally Posted by Zippy

We, as a country, are too focused on "growth" and material posessions as indicators of success. A paradigm shift is needed. I point to shows like "My Super-Sweet 16" as indicators of our decadence and complacency.

We give too much respect and admiration to those who least deserve it: think professional athletes and movies stars. Children would rather grow up to be rich and famous as opposed to doing something meaninful and intrinsically valuable with their lives.

Life has more meaning than the net income on your 1040.

What will your legacy be?

Are you any different?

[kanga]

I put my response in a different thread:

Before your next purchase... (warning: thought-provoking video content!)

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Pickettt

Are you any different?

Yes! Just like the rest of America, I think rules and statistics apply to everyone except me.


Seriously, I try to live simply. I avoid "conspicuous consumption" by limiting my purchases to things I need as opposed to things I want: no satellite TV, no flat screen, no PDA...you just don't need it.

I take pleasure in swimming, cycling and running every day and my long term-goals include avoiding a "real job" for as long as I can.

A good day Lifeguarding means no one dies. That's my measure of success.

[Pickettt]

Originally Posted by Zippy

Yes! Just like the rest of America, I think rules and statistics apply to everyone except me.


Seriously, I try to live simply. I avoid "conspicuous consumption" by limiting my purchases to things I need as opposed to things I want: no satellite TV, no flat screen, no PDA...you just don't need it.

I take pleasure in swimming, cycling and running every day and my long term-goals include avoiding a "real job" for as long as I can.

A good day Lifeguarding means no one dies. That's my measure of success.

Please, first realize, I'm not being judgmental. But isn't "conspicuous consumption" subjective?

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Pickettt

Please, first realize, I'm not being judgmental. But isn't "conspicuous consumption" subjective?

Sure it is. Perhaps I should have defined it before I used it to describe how I spend my paycheck.

The examples I used earlier outline what I consider "conspicuous consumption": Ex: MTV's show "My Super-Sweet 16".

My point is that we spend a lot of money on status items like cars and electronics that are not required for survival. While I'm not advocating living strictly at subsistence level, a two-person family does not "need" to live in a 5k sq foot house.

We could go 'round and 'round discussing the ethics of how someone decides to use their finances and get nowhere as it boils down to personal choice. I choose not to buy status items and ask that you consider if there is a better way to spend your cash before your next purchase.

That's all.

[audiopablo]

I want to be the first to say it:

What about the children?

Doesn't someone always say that on the talk shows? Kids under the poverty line are no laughing matter, but it seems like someone usually stands up says this to Maury, Dr. Phil, or whomever as their contribution to the argument. I just wanted to be the one today as I've not much more developed to say.

[lardbutt]

Wassamater?? I spel reel good enuf alreddy.

Originally Posted by el_d00der1n0

Here's my $0.02:

I think we as a country need to shift our priorities and put more focus on education.

[wirk242]

This is kind of a subject that hits pretty close to home.

I was a poor kid that grew up in South East San Diego. My brothers and I all seem to do okay in school and have all done pretty well for our selves in adulthood.

I have cousins that have had their lives decimated by drugs and poverty, they grew up in pretty much the same neighborhood and went to the same schools. How are we different?

I can only think of my parents as the determining factor, they were pretty involved in my life when I was growing up (much to my amusement). They always have supported us and pushed us be successful.

Another thing was I had some pretty cool teachers in JH and HS. They kind of saw I has an interest in computers and 'fueled the fire".

I think if you grow up in an environment of negativity and apathy you your self become that. I think that the only combat against it is good educational system. If you realize that you can do good in school, it can instill some hope that there is a better life than what is in your 'hood.

[0gravity]

Originally Posted by OffRoadie

One should not look to the government to solve one's problems. Each person needs to take ownership of their own life.

This sort of work-hard, "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" thinking is simply flawed and no longer relevant in today's world.

We're in a different economy in both the US and the global market. It's gotten a lot harder to simply work your way up to a better life. All the stats show it. Real wages for a broad spectrum of people in the US have not risen at all since 2000. Decades ago it was quite possible to work your way up the class ladder in the US. Those odds have plummeted. And the income disparity between rich and poor has grown obscenely large. All while prices for staple goods and services have gone up (and don't get me started on lack of health care in the US). The investor class is flush with money while average Americans and average workers get squeezed. Government policies like tax law, regulation of the financial and investment sector, and free-trade deals all have played a role in screwing low and middle income Americans.

Don't tell me my government has no role to play in reversing this trend and we should all just fend for ourselves.

[Abui]

Originally Posted by 0gravity

This sort of work-hard, "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" thinking is simply flawed and no longer relevant in today's world.

We're in a different economy in both the US and the global market. It's gotten a lot harder to simply work your way up to a better life. All the stats show it. Real wages for a broad spectrum of people in the US have not risen at all since 2000. Decades ago is was quite possible to work your way up the class ladder in the US. Those odds have plummeted. And the income disparity between rich and poor has grown obscenely large. All while prices for staple goods and services have gone up (and don't get me started on lack of health care in the US). The investor class is flush with money while average Americans and average workers get squeezed. Government policies like tax law, regulation of the financial and investment sector, and free-trade deals all have played a role in screwing low and middle income Americans.

Don't tell me my government has no role to play in reversing this trend and we should all just fend for ourselves.

Yes, government always does the wrong thing to reverse any trend. Government (politicians) treat the symptoms and not the cause. We end up worse than if we fended for ourselves.
College tuition too high? Give out grants to increase the demand and force tuition even higher.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by sladnas

"I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power."
--Thomas Jefferson

I agree, trouble is, education costs money, and the people with money don't really want change .

[lardbutt]

Originally Posted by 0gravity

This sort of work-hard, "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" thinking is simply flawed and no longer relevant in today's world.

We're in a different economy in both the US and the global market. It's gotten a lot harder to simply work your way up to a better life. All the stats show it. Real wages for a broad spectrum of people in the US have not risen at all since 2000. Decades ago is was quite possible to work your way up the class ladder in the US. Those odds have plummeted. And the income disparity between rich and poor has grown obscenely large. All while prices for staple goods and services have gone up (and don't get me started on lack of health care in the US). The investor class is flush with money while average Americans and average workers get squeezed. Government policies like tax law, regulation of the financial and investment sector, and free-trade deals all have played a role in screwing low and middle income Americans.

Don't tell me my government has no role to play in reversing this trend and we should all just fend for ourselves.

First I want to say that discussions like these are enjoyable because it helps me see differing viewpoints to the same issue.

But I respectfully disagree with 0gravity about the "boot strap" rule. In any society that resembles a Democracy, the only thing that will get you ahead (other than a rich mommy or daddy) is your own eduacation and effort level. Granted, the playing field isn't 100% level but that is hardly a reason to throw up your hands and stop trying. Too many people don't know where their own boot straps are.

Our government certainly isn't in the business of making us rich. Quite the contrary. It is in the business of making us beholden to it. (i.e. welfare) The only things I "need" from my government is to provide for the common defense, and provide basic social services, i.e. police, fire, emergency, roads, etc. Beyond that, Capitalism will take care of the rest.

But I have also learned during my life that not everyone aspires to the same goals, gives forth the same effort to achieving their goals, nor thinks that a solid education is the foundation that sets the stage for later success. I for one, think that this has as much to do with our differing economic/social groups as anything you, me, or the government does. I've also learned that no one can or should care more about your situation and success than you do. If you rely solely on others for creating your own success, I fear you will get only the scraps with which they are willing to part.

Not for me, thanks...

[bikeadict]

It's always easier to blame someone or something else (like the government)...
I do admit that the working wage is too low to get ahead.
but thats why people need to go take community college night classes instead of putting new rims on your geo metro or doing drugs, or smoking... or any number of things...

Especially in San Diego it would be hard to save money or even live on minimum wage. But when it comes down to it, if minimum wage is raised the cost of goods will go up and people making minimum wage will be in the same position as far as buying every day goods goes.

When it comes down to it someone will always need to work the Mc Dolands Drive Thru and if that person gets paid $15.00 / hr then a big Mac will cost $25.00...

There will always be rich and poor it is just a fact of life.
Or nation has a lot more low paying jobs than high paying jobs.
Would it be fair to tax someone who makes over 1 million a year a larger percentage than someone who makes 55000 a year??? I don't know... you tell me then tell me if that is "fair"...

and yes, I think education is key as well as a number of other things.... that I won't go into...