Used Digital SLR

[GP_pilot]

Any action photos I stick w/ my Canon DSLR and 100-400L IS and a 17-40L for scenery and still. I do have an older A640 which I took all the Moab photos two weeks ago and is fine for candids when you don't want to lug serious glass around. But I really did miss it a few times for actions and wide angle scenery shots. Definitely get image stabilization w/ a digital P&S once the light starts dimming. I haven't tried any of the wide angle or tele adapters and won't likely. I still can't get my P&S to do what I want as compared to my DSLR sometimes.

You might try bestpricecameras for the cheapest deals, although like any other NY dealer they want to sell you more since they don't make much profit on the camera body. I wouldn't buy used w/ these prices.

Rebel XT (8mp) $279
Rebel XTi (10mp) $319
Rebel XSi (12mp) $459
G9 (12mp) $374

[mfoga]

For still in good light just about every camera will produce good results. When there is action or low light thats when the differences start to show.

The XT that Marshall used not the lens but the body is around $450 with a basic lens. And you could get a few decent lenses that wold allow a good range. They may not be fast(low f number) but should do the job unless the lighting is bad. The advantage is that if you have a lot of options now and even down the road.

If you go the SLR route I would give your self some time to get familiar with the operation since there will be a lot more bells and whistles then you will be used to. From just the few conversations I have had with a few there are many knowledgeable photographers on here who could help out.

And if you are worried about what you can get with a basic lens this was taken in not so great light.

[Marshall Willanholly]

.....

[Marshall Willanholly]

.....

[jeffj]

Marshall, thanks for the setting info. It's interesting that the aperture settings were as close as the were on the 17-40 f/4L shot and the G9 shot. I believe the difference in DOF with such close aperure settings must be due to the G9 having even more of a crop factor than the rebel does. I know the DOF on a FF dslr like the Canon 1Ds and a crop camera like the rebel (with both using - for example - that 17-40 f/4L) will be different even though all camera and aperture setting appear to be the same. The full frame dslr will have a narrower DOF with the same lens at the same aperture setting. If you do the math on the actual focal length of the point and shoot, it looks like this is what is happening here.

Maybe KWH or Jordan will weigh in with info on that 'theory'.

That said, action shots is one area, that a dslr with a high quality lens will separate itself from even the best point and shoot cameras, especially when conditions get dicey. But even they have their limits in poor lighting.

[Marshall Willanholly]

.....

[mfoga]

I guess I should have said my pic is with the original Nikon D70 and the 18-70mm f/3.5–5.6. Actual setting 70mm f 4.5 and 500 shutter speed. It doesn't show the ISO on the photo but I think it was down around 400. I was playing with settings all night trying to see what I could get to work the best.

[MTBMaven]

Wow jeff, you really know your stuff. I would imagine the more you get into this stuff the easier it is to be able to identify all the little details, but dang...the ability to look at those photos and identify the cause and effect of all the different settings on the outcome of the photo. The outcome of a great photo really is so multivariate.

There are a few things I really want to get into sometime in life, photography and fly fishing. I love learning about new things and getting absorbed in all the details. Both activities are highly detailed, soulful, artistic, and relaxing things to do.

Do you teach photography by any chance? Can I sign up sometime before June 15th?

[EBasil]

Wow, there are some nice cameras and techy dudes in here!

I play around a little with dSLR's too, usually for use shooting pictures of skateboard racing, product photos and Cub Scouts. I shoot D1h, D80, D200, D300 and D3, but only own the D80 and a selection of lenses & flash units, etc... I carry a pocket camera on the bike.

In dSLR's, it "is the lenses that keep ya" and I am a Nikon guy. I've spent more than a day with the Canon 5D, a Pentax dslr and come from Pentax & Nikon in the film days. I prefer the ergonomics and function of the Nikons and, at the level of spending I'm willing to go to, they're the better cameras. Spend $$$$ and things change.

Based on the safari angle, the fact that you're not going to be hauling the rig around in a Camelbak and the ranges you'll be shooting at, I think you really do want a dSLR and I even have a reccomendation: that Nikon D60 I mentioned.



This is a 10.2 megapixel camera body that will shoot 3 fps, feels good in the hand and uses the new color computing from the D300 (killer). It's at Costco right now for $879, with two VR (vibration reduction) lenses: the excellent 18-55 and the very nice 55-200. This deal also includes a camera bag and a 1 gig chip. This is a very good deal and a very versatile setup.

With the 18-55, you've got your portralt, landscape and near-view lens, and it's as light as a feather even though it uses Nikon's very good glass (wrapped in plastic). The 55-200 will be your safari lens and, although you might get better shots with my 80-400 VR, you might also NOT -- the 55-200 focuses faster. I have one of these 55-200's and use it, too.

The D60 is featherweight, uses a battery that lasts 1000+ frames and you can read a review here.

The setup at Costco is a killer deal, but you really aren't done once you get it (just further along than buying only a camera body): you'll want at least one more chip so that you can swap/backup between days out there, and you should get filter/protectors for the lenses since you'll be in dusty and sunny conditions.

For the extra memory chip(s), go to Frys. you're not going to be shooting 30 frames in a row all day, so you can score yourself a two-pack of the 2 gig chips for $30 and be totally dialed in with that.

For the filters, eBay and only eBay. The little Nikon lenses both use 52mm filters, and the (excellent) Hoya filters are pennies on the MSRP dollar there. This is the one you'd put on each lens, simply to protect them from grit.

Lastly, get yourself a mini tripod with a velcro lash on it, so you can strap the camera to the rail of a Rover and get a photo of you and your wife with that nice kitty kat.

With the D60 kit, and this stuff, you'd have a camera, two VR lenses covering 18-200mm, ample memory, a bag and tripod. Your charger fits in the bag. You will be able to pick up the camera, snag shots without any delay, rack off frames using the autowinder, take flash-fill photos up close and shoot telephoto.

Whatever you get, make it a dSLR for the trip you're talking about.

[jeffj]

Originally Posted by Marshall Willanholly

I was wondering if the size of the CCD sensor had something to do with it. The XT's sensor is 7.71mm, the G9's is 2.21mm, and 850's is 2.1mm. I would guess that even wide open the actual size of the aperature on the G9 would be smaller than the XT's.

Well, the crop factor (relative distance from sensor [film plane] to the lens) and probably coupled with max aperture size will determine what size sensor can be used on a given camera.

Doing the math, if the G9's 7.4mm wide end of the zoom is equivalent to a 35mm lens on a full frame dslr, that would put the crop factor at about 4.7x.

Originally Posted by MTBMaven

Wow jeff, you really know your stuff. I would imagine the more you get into this stuff the easier it is to be able to identify all the little details, but dang...the ability to look at those photos and identify the cause and effect of all the different settings on the outcome of the photo. The outcome of a great photo really is so multivariate.

There are a few things I really want to get into sometime in life, photography and fly fishing. I love learning about new things and getting absorbed in all the details. Both activities are highly detailed, soulful, artistic, and relaxing things to do.

Do you teach photography by any chance? Can I sign up sometime before June 15th?

Thanks, but I would have to call myself an 'enthusiastic amateur' that would love to make a living doing something I'm passionate about. The more I learn about photography, the more I realize I don't know. Fly fishing is another activity where attention to detail can make all the difference and hence the saying: 10% of the fisherman catch 90% of the fish

[MTBMaven]

Dang EBasil you make quite a sell there. You've actually got me wanting to spend double what the G9 costs. I will have to mull it over for a few days. I want to get a good set of binoculars as well.

Funny on all our other trips we gotten away with point and shoot Casios and no binoculars. For some reason I feel like this trip is deserving of the right equipment.

[Marshall Willanholly]

.....

[MTBMaven]

These are a few of the gems from Peru and China. Sorry no pictures of Argentina, Ireland, or St. John.

This one was take near Cusco on the Sacred Valley Tour. We climbed out of this river valley and a rain storm hit us. There was this intense glow of the thick rain clouds and the sun low on the horizon shining under the clouds. We were around 10,500 feet at this point.


This picture is in Lijang Yunnan Province in China


This one is of Tiger Leaping Gorge also in Yunnan Province, China. The wonderful tour company we traveled with in Yunnan (Wild China) took us to the side with far less tourist. Wonderful place, just hot


This one is one of my favorites and is frequently my desktop photo. I took this at a Tibetan monastery in Yunnan Province.

[Lambda_drive]

Originally Posted by Marshall Willanholly

Here's a visual comparison of a couple of the the cameras discussed. All three of the images have been processed as jpegs (i.e. not shot in RAW format). Some cropping and slight color correction was done in Photoshop for all three images.

First up is the Canon Digital Rebel XT (not the current model, but the previous one). Lens: Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L




Second is the Canon G9:




Last is the Canon PowerShot SD850is

The problem with comparisons like those is that since you downsized your images to 1200x900px,(about 1MP) you can't really tell the difference between those three images. The only thing that really sets them apart are saturation. The G9 image seems to be set at a higher saturation setting than your other cameras.


The Canon G9 is a pretty nice camera, but I think the Canon S5 IS is head and shoulders above the G9. While the S5 has less resolution than the G9,(8mp vs. 12mp) They have about the same image quality. Besides, resolution doesn't really mean anything. Most people just downsize their images and post them on the internet anyway. The S5 has a MUCH better lens than the G9, The G9 has a maximum focal length of 210mm, while the canon S5 has a whopping 436mm maximum focal length. That comes in very handy. There are a few other things that are better about the S5, it is easier to hold since it has a nice grip, faster continuous shooting, unlimited image buffer, a better manual mode with more customizable settings. The only drawback is that it has a bit more heft than the G9.



But in my opinion, it DOESN'T matter what kind of camera you use, or how much resolution it has. Just about any camera nowadays will take nice pictures. Even Ken Rockwell agrees.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/150-...lar-camera.htm
A $150 camera is just as good as a $5,000 camera.

[jeffj]

Originally Posted by Lambda_drive

The problem with comparisons like those is that since you downsized your images to 1200x900px,(about 1MP) you can't really tell the difference between those three images. The only thing that really sets them apart are saturation. The G9 image seems to be set at a higher saturation setting than your other cameras.


The Canon G9 is a pretty nice camera, but I think the Canon S5 IS is head and shoulders above the G9. While the S5 has less resolution than the G9,(8mp vs. 12mp) They have about the same image quality. Besides, resolution doesn't really mean anything. Most people just downsize their images and post them on the internet anyway. The S5 has a MUCH better lens than the G9, The G9 has a maximum focal length of 210mm, while the canon S5 has a whopping 436mm maximum focal length. That comes in very handy. There are a few other things that are better about the S5, it is easier to hold since it has a nice grip, faster continues shooting, unlimited image buffer, a better manual mode with more customizable settings. The only drawback is that it has a bit more heft than the G9.



But in my opinion, it DOESN'T matter what kind of camera you use, or how much resolution it has. Just about any camera nowadays will take nice pictures. Even Ken Rockwell agrees.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/150-...lar-camera.htm
A $150 camera is just as good as a $5,000 camera.

[Lambda_drive]

Originally Posted by jeffj

What's so funny?

[jeffj]

Lambda, I don't care to derail Maven's thread here, so I have sent you a detailed response via PM, but let's agree to disagree with your comparison of the G9 and S5is.
-------------------------------------------
BTW: MTBMaven, you have some really nice shots there. If your travel photography IS a priority and a big reason for your trip, maybe it is worth it to you to make the investment and lug the DSLR gear around. That's a decision you have to make for yourself. I just tried to offer a more affordable, less problematic alternative if that might be appealing to you.

Another possible solution if you decide you really want to go the DSLR route is to buy a DSLR. Then seek out some high quality used lenses to take on your trip. When you return home, you can sell the lenses for what you paid for them. It will tie some money while you are gone, but you could likely only lose out on shipping charges if you shop carefully. Much cheaper than renting. It might also be prudent to check into insurance options if you take expensive gear with you.

If I were looking for used DSLR gear, I would be looking on the fredmirandadotcom site for it. I have bought and sold gear there with good results.

[EBasil]

Maven, the shots you've posted demonstrate that you can capture excellent images with anything in your hands.