Gas Boycott

[Liquid55]

Originally Posted by Seat Sniffer

So why does CA have some of the higher gas prices in the country?

Our gas has extra additives to it to burn cleaner to keep up with strict EPA regulations.

[92se-r]

Yeah, great additives which leach into our water table. Then it costs MORE money that is passed on to us for them to clean all their tanks out and fix things.

Gas prices have spiked partly due to the devaluing of the dollar. Every time we have these stupid bailouts of homeowners, banks, economic stimulus thingies, we print more money and devalue the dollar. Every time we lower interest rates we devalue the dollar. Since oil is traded in US dollars, it takes more US dollars per barrel, which is then passed on to us at the pump.

Originally Posted by Seat Sniffer

I would like to reiterate my questions:

1. Why are gas companies reporting record profits if they are not price gouging?

2. Referring to the chart I posted, why have gas prices spiked in the past 3 years and continue to rise? I'm not looking for the canned responses everyone knows from the oil companies, I want to know exactly where the demand has increased, and where the supply has diminished.

3. Then, I would like an explanation as to how oil companies can report record profits in a time of diminished supply if they aren't gouging?



Only if you come pick it up. I can't afford the gas.

[RustyIron]

Originally Posted by 92se-r

Yeah, great additives which leach into our water table. Then it costs MORE money that is passed on to us for them to clean all their tanks out and fix things.

We're talking about methyl tertiary butyl ether? You don't need to clean out the tanks, just stop putting more in. The phase out in California started nearly a decade ago.

Wanna guess who mandated the use of oxygenates? But you're absolutely right, the cost is passed directly on to the consumer.

[92se-r]

We had to pay the refineries to get tooled up to handle MTBE, then we had to pay for the aftermath. Weak.

Don't know who mandated it, but I hate California laws.

[Seat Sniffer]

Originally Posted by Liquid55

no I'm not rich, I was earned income credit eligible. But I'm not going to stand in a forest fire and try to piss on it. The American way is to bitch and moan about things we have no control over. Its life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...nowhere is there a guarantee.

well, I brought something to the table in the beginning of this thread, but even if it was a distant glimmer of a possible solution or the beginnings of a dent in the problem, there's no way it will work because we can't get everyone on the same page (in this forum, let alone the entire country). The gas issue is saturated with so many different ideas. I think that's the real reason why boycotts don't work. So as I stated earlier, bend over and take it! That IS the consensus resulting from our CHOICES to stand apart and stick to our own individual opinions. It is our right to do so.

[art23rockpile]

It seems as though with much of the speculation i'm reading in this thread regarding gas prices, people are missing a glaring fact: oil companies in this country (I believe there are five) are making RECORD PROFITS at a time when oil consumption in this country is DROPPING. Of course they are gouging us... what more evidence is needed to prove this? If Opec prices, supply & demand, additives, etc. were an issue, their profit margin would not be so large. It's simple mathematics. They will charge us as much as they think we'll pay.

Bitching about it has availed me nothing. Our politicians in both parties will do nothing... why should they? They're either lining their own pockets at our expense and/or loving the increased tax revenue the oil companies' obscene profits are generating. For me the solution is obvious: drive as little as possible.

[BobBurnes]

Originally Posted by 0gravity

I'm burned by the cost as much as the next guy, but how is this necessarily "proof of price gouging"??

As much as I want to believe it, this situation is a lot more nuanced than just oil companies are screwing us. One of the biggest reasons the cost has skyrocketed is that oil is bought and sold on global markets in dollars and our currency has fallen precipitously (which itself is a complicated mess) so that price gets jacked up. We need to rescue our dollar.

PS: also, the vast majority of the world's oil supply isn't owned and sold by oil companies, it's owned and sold by countries. Think bejeweled Mercedes.

You hit the nail on the head. Boycotting a certain gas company for a month, even if everyone on STR did it, wouldn't really effect the oil industry. We'd have to maintain that kind of pressure for at least a year or more, but that, as I've read before, isn't realistic. What needs to happen, and I'm only repeating what I've read in the news from experts, is the dollar needs to get out of the hole it's diving in.

I know it's frustrating to be at the mercy of something you can't control, but that frustration is usually the foundation for change. I do my part by not driving my truck like a madman, making sure my tires are properly inflated, and my truck is well maintained. I'd ride my bike to work, but I have to ride through Las Vegas' most violent neighborhoods at the most violent time to get there...but talk about your motivation.

[drclark]

Even if all the demand from chevron gas stations permanently shifted to mobil or shell permanently, it would not affect the chevron oil company one bit. Chevron would just sell the gas from the refieries to the other gas stations.

There seems to be a mistaken impression that Chevron gas stations are all owned by Chevron and only sell gas made by Chevron. All that would do is put all the Chevron brand gas stations out of business and reduce retail level competition. Most gas stations are independent franchises. In order to be a certain "brand" they have to follow some rules (like buy most of their gas from prefered distributors & such).

There is also the mistaken assumption that oil companies profits are solely driven by gasoline. Gasoline is just one of the products they sell. So even if demand for gas is dropping, is the demand for all other oil products dropping as well?

I never get over how people whine about how bad using oil/gas is and how bad for the environment it is, but whine even louder when the prices go up. High prices is the ONLY way to get the majority of americans to change their consumption habits or seek out alternatives.

drc

[duke777]

We need to boycott gas all together. Not one company at a time. If we all some how ride to work(I know that's not quite possible) or drive a smaller car then we'll save millions in money and save countless lives of fat people.

1/4 of all oil sucked up in the world is burnt on american highways!

If we all can just 10% better gas mileage that equates to BILLIONS of gallon of gas!

[Winger]

The long term effects of the higher prices might be a good thing.

On a recent trip to England, I was blown away that everyone drove small cars. There seriously wasn't 1 Ford Explorer-type vehicle on the road, and even a Honda Accord was a rarity. What you saw were cars smaller than Honda Civics from car companies I've never heard of. In addition, their public transportation system was incredible. It was a seamless part of their lives....catch a bus to the train station, take the train to the subway, take the subway to another bus, to your destination.

When I came back to the U.S. it was almost embarrassing to see our ridiculously large cars and lack of public transportation. It is funny to see how much pride people take in their large cars, and how small cars are a joke.

Perhaps the gas prices will encourage us to step back and take a look at our lifestyles and make long term changes to reduce consumption. Maybe families will begin to consider small cars the next time they are in the market for a new car. Maybe the government will receive more pressure to improve public transportation.

Just think about the drop in oil usage if everyone drove a small car or used public transportation. ...that's how we fight back against the oil companies.

[FFW]

If any of you feel like burning some serious gas to come up to the hinterlands, I offer an Econ 101 mini-course free of charge with prime locals-only single track and beers at the local brew pub to follow (not necessarily in that order). Kinda like one of those time-share tryout deals. The palmdale vacation spa and resort

Please don't hold it against me but I earn my living performing economic/financial analyses. My handle, given to me by an F-4 Phantom pilot, stands for F'ing Finance Weenie. I worked in the oil and gas industry for 6 years on the downstream side as a refined products trader - yes I was evil but have since reformed. Gas prices touch a nerve because in the relative short run, they hit us hard where we live. The biggest driver here (pun intended) is that the USA has never had a comprehensive (or rational) energy strategy. The trend charts someone displayed show the natural market adjustments to changes in supply, demand, political intervention, and uncertainty (perceived, as well as real risk). Several folks have brought up classic examples of recent market disruptions;

-MTBE mandate - a regulatory debacle,
-Gulf wars - uncertainty/supply side risk,
-US driving habits - demand side stress,
-Static refinery capabilities - artificial supply side limiter
-Declining crude reserves - real supply side limiter
-Declining dollar - world surplus of US currency creates inflation and uncertainty

All the above necessarily increase the price of refined petroleum products. Note that of the above, political and/or consumer choices are responsible for all but declining crude reserves.

Enough for now... As for the syllabus, we will begin with refined and work our way into crude after a couple pitchers...

[theothermrt]

Forget gas - the future is in LNG. I run my Ford F-150 on it. My dad runs his converted Crown Victoria police interceptor he got off ebay for $4500 on it. Costs ~ $1.50 per volume with a btu/gallon equivalent when we fill up at home from the pipe out of the wall in the garage.

[Seat Sniffer]

Originally Posted by theothermrt

Forget gas - the future is in LNG. I run my Ford F-150 on it. My dad runs his converted Crown Victoria police interceptor he got off ebay for $4500 on it. Costs ~ $1.50 per volume with a btu/gallon equivalent when we fill up at home from the pipe out of the wall in the garage.

where do i sign up? any more info?

[theothermrt]

Originally Posted by Seat Sniffer

where do i sign up? any more info?

I meant NG (methane that pipes through your homes for heating etc.), not LNG. Any 4 cycle gasoline running vehicle can convert to be run on natural gas. A fuel line filter change and the addition of a 3600 psi tank are the basics. There are some "gassing up" stations located at state gov't facilities like the air quality measurement facility over on the other side of Diamond Bar. Most of the time I gas up at home with an off the shelf natural gas multi-stage compressor. My dad's car gets around 200 miles for a fill, and my truck goes 120 ish on the natural gas tank with an extended range because I can still run gasoline in it. Natural gas burns cleaner than gasoline with no loss in power.

[Seat Sniffer]

Originally Posted by theothermrt

I meant NG (methane that pipes through your homes for heating etc.), not LNG. Any 4 cycle gasoline running vehicle can convert to be run on natural gas. A fuel line filter change and the addition of a 3600 psi tank are the basics. There are some "gassing up" stations located at state gov't facilities like the air quality measurement facility over on the other side of Diamond Bar. Most of the time I gas up at home with an off the shelf natural gas multi-stage compressor. My dad's car gets around 200 miles for a fill, and my truck goes 120 ish on the natural gas tank with an extended range because I can still run gasoline in it. Natural gas burns cleaner than gasoline with no loss in power.

here's a site that sells the bi-fuel galileo kits:

http://www.mycngkit.com/

a little over $2000 for parts including tank.

it appears that running your car on cng works out to be about 30% cheaper than gas, but the cost of a conversion and inconvenience will most likely keep most people away from it. Although, it is still cheaper than E85(which is a little cheaper than gas but gets worse mileage so it works out to about the same cost) and more realistic as a fix than hydrogen fuel cell or full electric. Still the best solution is the hybridized vehicle. For example a hybrid civic gets 50mpg while a cng civic gx gets 30mpg(Gas gallon equivalent). The cng civic has close to 0 emissions while the hybrid civic still produces higher emissions than a diesel vw(50mpg). So by taking into consideration fuel type cost and efficiency, it goes as such:

1. gasoline hybrid car(highest emissions)

2. cng car(0 emission)

3. diesel car(lowest emission next to cng)