Gas Strike Days and Why it will NEVER work

[drclark]

Originally Posted by EMrider

I'm curious if you have any idea(s) about what you'd like to see "them" do?

There is no US economy control panel sitting somewhere in Washington D.C.. Thousands of years of history strongly suggest that prices send the clearest signals and create incentives that people respond to over time.

We don't all buy cars, build homes or select jobs on a weekly or monthly basis. But I'm absolutely sure that every person facing these sorts of decisions today is at least considering other options given the cost of energy.

I whole heartedly agree with you. When I bought my house I made the conscious decision to pay a 20K premium to live close to my job so I could regularly bike to work. Granted, its going to take a long time to break even (unless gas prices get to $10/gal) but I figure the time I save commuting, not having to buy gas as often, the exercise I get all make it worth it to me. Now I just have to have the good fortune to stay gainfully employed at my current job for the next 30 yrs???

If I were in the market for a new car today, gas mileage would be on the top of the list of considerations. Since I don't DH/shuttle as much as I used to, having a 4wd pickup is no longer a priority. However, the truck will be paid for in 2 months so it does not make sense to buy a new vehicle to incur the cost of another loan. If the truck will run for another 5 yrs, while still being able to commute primarily by bike, I will be happy.

There are also daily decisions one can make. Example, I chose to ride my bike today despite my legs feeling like crap after watching this mornings news story on gas prices.

I think from supralight's earlier post, he is looking for more regulatory action out of the government to force the nation off of oil to another energy system. Personally, I don't have a lot of faith in the .gov to actually do anything constructive. At best they'll mandate something with out thinking of all the unintended consequences and create a bigger mess than they started with. True innovation comes from the private sector. If the price of gas climbs high enough someone will figure out they can get rich by providing a cheaper alternative.

My earlier comments about reducing regulatory restrictions on the oil industry was aimed at pointing out the choice as a nation we have to make about remaining "addicted" to oil. IF we are going to stay on a oil-based energy economy then we have some hard decisions to make about the environment & pollution if we are to remain economically competitive on the world stage. I read that China is considering shutting down the factories in and around Bejing during the olympics to clean the air up to the point where the athelete won't have to wear masks while they compete. Yet everyone wonders/bitches about why it is cheaper to make stuff in china than here. I am tired of the average mindless hipocrite that complains about pollution, protests against drilling in ANWAR and offshore, etc yet turns around and is the first to complain about the high cost of gas. The true environmentalists ought to be welcoming the soaring gas prices as that is the only real incentive for America to seriously consider real alternatives.

drc

[art23rockpile]

FWIW, the only way to get the oil companies' attention is to reduce your driving (read: fuel consumption) by at least 10%. When more people start driving less... and I mean a LOT less... they will have to lower prices.
I drive a Ford F250 diesel, which gets 14mpg city/17mpg freeway. With diesel at $4.45/gal. and almost no work, i'm driving 25% (or so) less than a year ago.

[brownlandshark]

I recently bought a motorcycle to commute on. I am spending about half as much on gas as I used to. If more people did this it would make a difference. I also get home faster!

[~ Pakiha ~]

Sorry for the re-post but I think my last title wasn't Direct enough to the subject.

Rant to follow

"By any measure, Exxon Mobil’s performance last year was a blowout.
The company reported Friday (Feb. 1 2008 ) that it beat its own record for the highest profits ever recorded by any company, with net income rising 3 percent to $40.6 billion, thanks to surging oil prices. The company’s sales, more than $404 billion, exceeded the gross domestic product of 120 countries.
Exxon Mobil earned more than $1,287 of profit for every second of 2007."

(Full article found HERE in the New York Times)

Have we had enough yet, I know I have and this is going to be a rant of substantial perportions. Some of you know that I worked at one time for a company that assisted Franchised Mobil owners in purchasing product. I had a very clear picture of what happens at the stations and just how the marionette strings are pulled. I have seen the constant emails of "don't buy gas today" and am sure once gas hits $4.00 a gallon that they are going to rise again.

First things First, don't blame the gas station for gas prices. they are just as much the victim as you. they buy gas in large quantities yes, but the rate at which they by gas changes just as frequent as the sign on the street. They are then told how much they can sell it for, typically making .10 a gallon for an average station. Barley making enough profit to pay for Franchise dues and land lease rates.

Second, Mobil owns the land and controls the lease rates. Many owners faced quadruple land lease increases, why? Mobil wants them out. By raising the lease and franchise costs, and controlling profits on gas the essentially squeeze them out of the lease before they hit the mark where they can claim ownership of the land. Mobil is into the real estate business as much as any one and retail land is siting at an all time high. (My former bosses station on Beverly in LA is worth close to 18 million dollars and you could barely build a decent size house on it)

Third, Valero is a Public Relation front. Mobil knows it is getting a bad rep, and with their name on the sign and raising prices next to it they get horrible PR to boot. So what do you do. You make owning a chain of stations look sooo good and at an offer you hardly can refuse you go for it. Valero owns the stations and the distribution rights (buys and trucks gas from), you guessed it Mobil. they try and make it so you don't get mad at Mobil, you get mad at Valero , PR mission accomplished .
(Remember they dropped the Exxon in their name after the "Exxon Valdes" Incident. (Just like Shimano is ditching LX for SLX over the dual flippy lever debacle)

Lastly, Oil companies are like insurance and bank companies. They never die, They are merely absorbed into another.

Why is this important? because it gives the public power to choose how lives and who is absorbed. Forget this "no gas for a day." All you are doing is postponing profit for a day, and even if you managed to do some harm, prices will rise to compensate.

What you do have the ability to do is forgo patronage to a brand completely and entirely, and here in this simple act lies the power.

I (when i need gas) buy from Shell or Chevron the two companies that have the most aggressive alternative fuel research programs and I avoid Mobil like the plague.

It is a long path of consequences and I will try to make it plain, and of course theory and practical application are different monsters all together, and can easily fall into the military adage that, "No plans survive contact with the enemy"

When you avoid a brand you affect their immediate demand and supply structure. Soon they have to rid themselves of product and recoup lost funds, so they raise prices and they sell of their reserves to companies we would support, lowering (or leveling prices for a time) and creating a noticeable disparity in prices over the companies corner stations, causing the general public with out thought to follow suit of the program.

If demand for the brand continues to plummet, prices would still rise for their brand (for the station atendand needs to compensate for that 250,000 fuel bill at the end of the month), and more product would continue to over flow from the Mobil hub into the other major brands of our support, increasingly throwing off their supply/demand structure. This isn't an over night effect, but in time that siphoning would eventually turn from Gas reserves to oil stocks, Oil stocks to infrastructure (pipelines, dilling platforms, tankers, processing plants), and finally to management.

Eventually their paychecks would be printed on different paper with the name of the brand we felt held our interests best inked on the top. That is the power of simply choosing the other station.

We cannot wish Mobil and fuel dependency away, and Yes I am quite liberal on this topic. If you saw how they acted about profits, people, and business partners you may acquire the same distaste. That and I refuse to accommodate the lowest common denominator and accept or tolerate stupidity, for I fear it only encourages and coddles the behavior.

I know this rant is long and winded but I needed to get it out and "onto paper"

On a drive to a Mobil meeting with my boss, he started fuming about something and about 2 seconds later I found out why. This was why.

Ride to work at least once this summer, heck once a month, and be an example to those around you. You may not realize it but all that people are waiting for is an example to follow, and leaders they can trust. We can be and Are those people all we need to do is have faith in our efforts.



- Rant over

[guero]

jared, check your PM in regards to the dirt series.

[~ Pakiha ~]

PM sent

[art23rockpile]

As I stated in the other "Gas Strike Day" thread, If we all start driving considerably less (thus consuming less fuel), the oil companies will have to lower prices. Agreed, the concept of not buying gas for a day is useless... one simply buys it on another day. Americans 'vote with their pocketbooks'... I refuse to patronise unethical companies; true, gas is necessary, but we can all figure out how to make do with as little as possible. Drastically reduced sales WILL send the oil companies a message, loud and clear.

In my case, i've been driving approximately 25% less than a year ago, and i'll continue to scale back my driving as prices go higher yet.

[0gravity]

Originally Posted by ~ Pakiha ~

I (when i need gas) buy from Shell or Chevron the two companies that have the most aggressive alternative fuel research programs and I avoid Mobil like the plague.

You're absolutely right. I work in the renewable energy field and see first hand that both Shell and Chevron are very supportive of renewables while Mobil has no interest. It's been the most ardent dis-believer of global warming. So for that basic reason, I avoid Mobil's whenever possible. I prefer Shell over Chevron because Shell does a lot of investing in the wind sector, which I work in.

On the gas strike, I absolutely agree that skipping gas purchases on one day will do nothing. BUT....what's more important is the performative value of staging such an action as an act of protest and public outrage. There must be some way the public can make its anger at prices visible. I haven't see another way yet for regular motorists to voice their outrage.

I don't necessarily think there's anything that can be done in the near term about high prices (besides the $ appreciating in value) but at least people have an outlet for their frustration.

[RustyIron]

Originally Posted by ~ Pakiha ~

I (when i need gas) buy from Shell or Chevron the two companies that have the most aggressive alternative fuel research programs and I avoid Mobil like the plague.

Uh, dude... surely, as an expert in petroleum marketing, you're aware that all gas stations get their gasoline from the same terminals, right? When you buy gasoline from Shell, you have no idea from where the crude was pumped or where it was refined.

It's like pouring a bottle of Crystal Geyser, a bottle of Desani and a bottle of Kirkland water into a pitcher, then pouring out a glass and saying that you're not going to drink the Kirkland.

Rob

[0gravity]

I heard a shocking statistic the other day. Oil companies own or control roughly 5% of the crude that's sold on any given day. It's state actors throughout the world, like the usual suspects in the Middle East, but also Russia, Venezuela, etc. that control the vast majority of the market.

Not sure what the takeaway is there. Maybe that quite a it of blame could be directed in a geopolitical way. And that maybe that's solving the issue has less to do with oil companies and more to do with dealing with all the oil controlling/exporting countries. They control the biggest spigot to supply.

[soul rider]

it's funny that we expect an oil company to come up with more efficient and or alternate sources of energy, they're an oil company! not a solar, hydro, ethynol company. you can't make billions off the sun.
you, like me want and plan on going to far places to ride this summer. well it's going to come at a price, but riding new trails with great friends...priceless

[~ Pakiha ~]

Originally Posted by RustyIron

Uh, dude... surely, as an expert in petroleum marketing, you're aware that all gas stations get their gasoline from the same terminals, right? When you buy gasoline from Shell, you have no idea from where the crude was pumped or where it was refined.

It's like pouring a bottle of Crystal Geyser, a bottle of Desani and a bottle of Kirkland water into a pitcher, then pouring out a glass and saying that you're not going to drink the Kirkland.

Rob

Yup, You are totally correct. but the big profit is when it is sold from Industry to station, not B2B

[0gravity]

Originally Posted by soul rider

it's funny that we expect an oil company to come up with more efficient and or alternate sources of energy, they're an oil company! not a solar, hydro, ethynol company. you can't make billions off the sun.
you, like me want and plan on going to far places to ride this summer. well it's going to come at a price, but riding new trails with great friends...priceless

Actually a few of them, as already mentioned, are starting more and more to think of themselves as energy companies. Sure, 95% of the business will probably be oil for a long time, but they are making real strides into renewables.

And you'd be surprised the deals going down these days. Not sure about making billions in solar, but billion dollar deals are going down all the time in wind. When Merrill Lynch flipped project developer Horizon Wind, it made $1.8 billion IN PURE PROFIT.

[supralight]

i guess im just really frustrated with the envtl. policies and repeal of regulations during the last 8 years and the coffee i was drinking made me type something odd.

[Bryguy17]

its really good to see that people care...

Its funny, I've become increasingly more disgusted with the state of our environment, the state of our economy (due in large part to the oil dependency), and the amazing ability of millions upon millions of people to just NOT CARE.

When i moved back down to socal from san luis obispo, i noticed some things. There are cars. A LOT of cars. When you think about it, you pass several hundred of them going the other way down the freeway in a matter of seconds. that same amount is on your side of the road, and on practically every other traffic congested freeway in the area. Its crazy how many cars there are. Then you start to think about what those cars are taking in, putting out, and things get scary. The shear amount of crap that they process is amazing, especially to inefficiently move around people (often only one).

Our society is as stupid as it comes. Oil is like crack to us, we're addicted and theres no stopping it without several visits to rehab. Its sad to look at society like that, and think of it like a helpless crackhead.

At least we can hope for some brighter futures. My dad bought a civic hybrid yesterday to help him save some gas money. Probably over $3k a year in savings right there, and its a good bit cleaner than his corvette (though not nearly as fun). I also noticed that socal edison is subsidizing compact fluorescents. $2 gets you a 4-pack of CFL's at stater bros.

that was a rather disjointed rant, but i was pretty much just typing and not thinking about coherence too much

oh, and 0gravity, that is one BIG mother of a windmill in that picture...

peace,
Bryan

[schleppp]

Welcome the the free market and capitalism!! I find it hard to really begrude a company that makes a ton of money. I am sure there are plenty of people on this board that make well beyond six figures, and also those that live near the poverty line. I am sure that those in the upper income level feel no guilt about the money they make, and those that are in the lower level should not begrudge them.

I eagerly await the barrage of less than kind comments from my communist riding buddies!! (insert obvious joke sign!)

however, this not to say that I agree with the countries addiction to fossil fuels.

[EMrider]

Originally Posted by supralight

i guess im just really frustrated with the envtl. policies and repeal of regulations during the last 8 years and the coffee i was drinking made me type something odd.

I have exposure to a LOT of different businesses in many different countries. Technology, financial services, heavy industry, materials, consumer products, health care, etc........

I'm confident that the US's environmental protection policies and laws are strong, vigorously enforced and for the most part appropriate (i.e., they are based on some sort of cost/benefit analysis). The EPA was created nearly 40 years ago and it is a huge bureaucracy with enormous clout. The financial penalties and reputational damage from being an environmental bad guy are huge toady so companies prefer to err on the side of extreme caution. Nothing is perfect and there will always be abuse, but that is really a tiny fraction of the whole. So IMHO, relax, the environment is safe here.

I think from supralight's earlier post, he is looking for more regulatory action out of the government to force the nation off of oil to another energy system. Personally, I don't have a lot of faith in the .gov to actually do anything constructive. At best they'll mandate something with out thinking of all the unintended consequences and create a bigger mess than they started with. True innovation comes from the private sector. If the price of gas climbs high enough someone will figure out they can get rich by providing a cheaper alternative.

My earlier comments about reducing regulatory restrictions on the oil industry was aimed at pointing out the choice as a nation we have to make about remaining "addicted" to oil. IF we are going to stay on a oil-based energy economy then we have some hard decisions to make about the environment & pollution if we are to remain economically competitive on the world stage. I read that China is considering shutting down the factories in and around Bejing during the olympics to clean the air up to the point where the athelete won't have to wear masks while they compete. Yet everyone wonders/bitches about why it is cheaper to make stuff in china than here. I am tired of the average mindless hipocrite that complains about pollution, protests against drilling in ANWAR and offshore, etc yet turns around and is the first to complain about the high cost of gas. The true environmentalists ought to be welcoming the soaring gas prices as that is the only real incentive for America to seriously consider real alternatives.

drc

Yes indeed. I'm also one of the few people I know that is actually glad that prices have risen. For decades, the price of energy was very low (in both absolute terms and more importantly as a share of personal income). Predictably, this caused consumers to develop "bad" habits and basically ignore energy efficienty in their decisions. And far more importantly IMHO, it led to a dependency on and massive asset transfer to a part of the world and culture that is often hostile to US interests.

Those days have some to a bruising end, and fast. There is big money to be made in providing consumers and companies less expensive, cleaner, more efficient and more reliable sources of energy. This applies for all uses too, although transportation is the biggest by far. Massive resources are now moving in this direction and in time, we (e.g., all consumers) will reap the benefits. I'm fine if the govt. sets some basic ground rules, but certainly don't want then to get into the business of allocating resources and picking "winners". They can't do this because the future is un-knowable. And if some smart person makes a billion or two for being the first to create a superior car, heater, airplane, or whatever, kudos to them because they will have made us ALL far better off.

R

[el_d00der1n0]

Originally Posted by schleppp

Welcome the the free market and capitalism!! I find it hard to really begrude a company that makes a ton of money. I am sure there are plenty of people on this board that make well beyond six figures, and also those that live near the poverty line. I am sure that those in the upper income level feel no guilt about the money they make, and those that are in the lower level should not begrudge them.

I eagerly await the barrage of less than kind comments from my communist riding buddies!! (insert obvious joke sign!)

however, this not to say that I agree with the countries addiction to fossil fuels.

there's only me i guess, and there's no point in arguing. we can spout talking points all day long, but you believe what you believe and i believe what i believe and you're not convincing me of anything and i'm not convincing you of anything.

we'll have to agree to disagree, and that's how we all stay friends.

what we do agree on, however, is riding mountain bikes is fun. we may not agree on the details of that, but that's what i enjoy about str (sram sucks ).

proletarii vsekh stran soyedinyaytes