OC register (i think) article: plastic bags

[slowSSer]

Two California bills that propose charging supermarket shoppers fees for using Earth-damaging plastic bags got one step closer to reality.

In a committee hearing Monday, the two bills merged, according to state officials. If passed, the unified bill (AB 205 proposed by Assemblyman Lloyd Levine would charge grocery shoppers up to 25 cents per plastic bag used at supermarkets, drug stores and discounters such as Wal-Mart and Target.

Levine’s proposal required a 15-cent charge for each carryout bag, while a competing bill proposed a 25-cent fee for using plastic. The 25-cent proposal (AB 2829) was authored by Assemblyman Mike Davis of Los Angeles. His staff will work with Levine’s on the combined bill.

“This is a significant victory for the environment,” Levine said. “Plastic bags are imposing a considerable cost to the environment and to California taxpayers now shelling out $285 million dollars a year for clean-up.”

It’s unclear what kind of fee will emerge when the combined bill is introduced next month in an Assembly appropriations committee. The fees apply to retailers that meet the following requirements:

larger than 10,000-square feet and with a pharmacy
grocery stores with annual sales of $2 million or more

The last requirement was put in place so smaller, mom-and-pop grocery stores would not be affected. The bill does not apply to department stores or fast-food chains that use plastic carryout bags.

California Grocers Association opposes mandatory plastic bag surcharges. The group said retailers are working to reduce the use of plastic bags. Last summer, a new California law went into effect, requiring grocery stores to sell reusable bags, as well as provide bins for recycling plastic bags.

That “program has only been in place for less than a year and although our members are reporting that consumers have increased their recycling efforts, it’s still too early to access the success of the program,” the trade association said.

It estimated that Californians use about 19 billion plastic grocery bags each year.

so, what do y'all think? a good idea? bad? have you been charged for plastic bags? we found out recently that ikea now does.

[uzziboy]

Ok heres the story, I work for a grocery store, plastic bags are the biggest pain in the ass. But I have to say about 99% of people choose plastic for the convenience, and will not change their shopping patterns. The company I work for has always had a recycling program for the plastic and is now starting offering canvas bags, (after every chain has alreaddy done so) and I am seeing that more and more people have choosen to go for these reusable bags. I think that is a good thing. So I think that most peeps will just pay the tax, but if our bags can save some plastic trees then that is even better

[cjwally]

When I go to the grocery store, they don't even offer paper bags unless I stop them and specifically ask for PAPER....Back in the day they would ask... "paper or plastic." Not anymore... I prefer paper anyways, but I always re-use the bags I get from the supermarket for my trash so either way I am always getting at least 2 uses out of each bag....

[guero]

how would they charge the consumer? will the bagger inform the cashier how many plastic bags were used after everything is all accounted for?

[mfoga]

Originally Posted by guero

how would they charge the consumer? will the bagger inform the cashier how many plastic bags were used after everything is all accounted for?

Exactly
Then consider when they like to put one item in a bag and double bag half the stuff. Are they going to charge you for their waste

[foofighter]

seems there's been an answer for a long time about biodegradable plastic bags

Here

The reason plastic is awesome is that it's super durable, so it lasts forever, which is an issue when we want it to go away and take its place in the circle life. Biodegradable plastics aren't new, but in the past they've been pretty weak and expensive. Eco-geeks at the Missouri University of Science and Technology have come up with the anti-daywalker of plastic: All of its strengths, but it disintegrates in four months. They've got different plastic polymer cocktails depending on use—one for water bottles, another for grocery sacks—with varying bio-based fillers that'll break down easier.
One possible filler is glycerol, which is a waste product of making biodiesel. Another is polylactic acid, which is made by fermenting starches, and breaks down in just 60 days—it's a possible candidate for water bottle plastics. The bio-based fillers in the polymers will make it cheaper than past biogradegradables, but still fairly strong.
Course, you could use a polycarbonate or steel bottle over and over again, and cloth grocery bags, and skip the plastic entirely, but someone's gotta take out those bastard sea gulls.

[richie_rich]

Originally Posted by cjwally

When I go to the grocery store, they don't even offer paper bags unless I stop them and specifically ask for PAPER....Back in the day they would ask... "paper or plastic." Not anymore... I prefer paper anyways, but I always re-use the bags I get from the supermarket for my trash so either way I am always getting at least 2 uses out of each bag....

I'm with you, I never get asked...I ask for paper and get dirty looks most of the time. Baggers just start putting things in plastic and never fill them up. I left Target the other day with 6 bags for 10 items...ridiculous At any rate I like the paper bags best, plus they don't spill out as easy in my truck bed!

[2wheel_lee]

Wow, since I'd be paying for the cleanup of my bag, I'd no longer have any guilt of letting the wind "carry it away"! Let 'er fly, baby!

[drclark]

I really hate bills like this.

1. How many people will actually stop using plastic bags if the $.25 bag tax is passed? If they really want to stop it make the tax $25.00 per bag.

2. Will the state actually use the collected tax to actually cleanup and dispose of the bags???? The state will probably dump all the $$ into the general fund to cover budget shortfalls.... Not a dime will actually make it into a bag recycling program.

3. Why does the bill only apply to "BIG" supermarkets? If plastic bags are really a problem then why exempt certain classes of stores? Tax them ALL!

4. I inherrently "recycle" my bags. I use them as trash can liners and dog-poop bags. Even if they were to enact an out-right ban on plastic grocerie bags I would have to buy hefty bags anyways.

5. LA already allows plastic bags in their blue recycle bins. Isn't the cost of recycling already covered in my skyrocketing trash fees... oh wait, villarogrosa is supposedly using that money to hire more cops....

6. I do agree that trash in general is a problem. Why not extend the CRV-fee to plastic bags like they do with cans and bottles. That way you at least have the option to take the bags back and get your $$ back. (side note, anyone know why the RE-PLANET CRV recycling centers won't take stuff transported in shopping carts? I would think that encouraging the homeless to pickup litter would be a good thing....)

This bill is setting environmentalism up to be just another excuse to raise taxes.... kinda like the global warming transit fee they are discussing as well.

drc

[katonk]

Originally Posted by 2wheel_lee

Wow, since I'd be paying for the cleanup of my bag, I'd no longer have any guilt of letting the wind "carry it away"! Let 'er fly, baby!

In this case, the preferred disposal method is to feed them to dolphins while clubbing baby seals. I've been looking for a guilt free way to do this. Thanks CA!

[DangerSlave]

Don't forget to throw your old 6-pack carriers in the ocean so you can get a 6-pack of fish next time you go to Red Lobster!!!

[granny ring]

Weren't we all supposed to switch to plastic to save the environment a few years back??
Another example of "flavor of the month" politics at work.
I have an idea, LEAVE ME ALONE! I'm pretty sure I have more common sense and concern for my neighborhood than any politician or special interest group.

[Pain Freak]

I've been in the plastics field for 35+ years and the plastic bag (referred to as a T-shirt bag in the industry) is without a doubt the worse of all things ever made out of plastic. I have no problem bringing my own canvas bags to the store. They hold more and they fold up very easily. We've been using the same bags for over 5 years now. Using a paper bag is not much better as the glue (binder) that goes into making them is also toxic, but a far less quanity is used.

My company is one of the biggest suppliers of recycled milk jugs that go into the making of the plastic bags, but the manufacturers of the bags don't want to use any recyclate back into their product. By law they are required, but they use far less then the law says they are supposed to use. We also recycle the bags . One of our companies is selling 25 million pounds a year of recycled milk bottles and even if the plastic bag was to stop being produced tomorrow we have more then enough other companies that will buy this product.

Plastic shopping bags are a bad idea.